Author Topic: Mp, blocking LOS and such  (Read 11534 times)

Pax

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Mp, blocking LOS and such
« on: June 25, 2009, 06:32:28 AM »
This been discussed on the forums before after doing some searching but I can not figure out which ruling is the correct one?

http://forum54.oli.us/index.php?topic=5172.msg37028#msg37028
Here it's stated that going into MP do not block LoS.

http://forum54.oli.us/index.php?topic=170.msg9435#msg9435
Here it's stated it do.

I was originally looking into the MP rules for if the -2RC for shooting at a model in MP stacks with cover or not. If standing behind a waist high cover with a model is the same as being in MP behind said object or if this actually blocks the LoS? Perhaps going into base to base contact with a cover counts as a automatic MP?

The discussion on the FAQ post never concluded on a finish from what I can see so asking if there ever was one?

Offline micmellon

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 06:39:36 AM »
Good question. Honestly I don't know but I would like to know the answer, too :D
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Offline Lopis

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 07:02:30 AM »
As I see it you get only the highest possible Bonus or to say malus for the attacking unit.

And MP doesn´t block LOS.
The model is supposed to crawl or do anything to cover himself or "all-possible-to-not get shot", but it can still be seen to a part.

You get the bonus of being able to shoot over them from second line without them blocking your LOS to the target.

What would add I think is smoke an guerilla training.
Stated that they add to any other modifier.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 07:06:10 AM by Lopis »
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Offline Enker

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 10:39:57 AM »

You get the bonus of being able to shoot over them from second line without them blocking your LOS to the target.



Yes,thats how we play it. But I cannot find it anywhere in the rulebook (as so often)

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Offline luckyone

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 11:08:53 AM »

You get the bonus of being able to shoot over them from second line without them blocking your LOS to the target.



Yes,thats how we play it. But I cannot find it anywhere in the rulebook (as so often)



Per the FAQ

Page 53: Ranged Combat Targeting
Q: How much larger must a model be to shoot over another model? How much higher must one
model be to shoot over another?
A: A Model must be at least two sizes larger than the model in front of them in order to fire over them.
The exception is models who are MP. Models behind models who are MP may fire over them if
they are at least the same size.
The amount of elevation needed to hit a target is determined by the one inch firing lane rule. If the
model on the elevation can draw LOS to the chest of the target, and still clear the intervening
models by one inch or more (either vertical or horizontal), the shot is legal. The best way to judge
this is to draw a string between the two models and look at the clearance. If that isn’t definitive, roll
a peacemaker.

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Offline luckyone

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2009, 11:35:42 AM »
As I see it you get only the highest possible Bonus or to say malus for the attacking unit.

And MP doesn´t block LOS.
The model is supposed to crawl or do anything to cover himself or "all-possible-to-not get shot", but it can still be seen to a part.

You get the bonus of being able to shoot over them from second line without them blocking your LOS to the target.

What would add I think is smoke an guerilla training.
Stated that they add to any other modifier.


From what I understand if you are MP behind hard or soft cover the bonuses do not stack and you can be shot at.

If you are concealed behind cover you can still be spotted.

Always look out for number one, but don't step in number two.
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Offline Lopis

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 07:50:59 AM »
From what I understand if you are MP behind hard or soft cover the bonuses do not stack and you can be shot at.

If you are concealed behind cover you can still be spotted.

Yes and yes (if you get a LOS).
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Offline luckyone

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 05:28:49 PM »
From what I understand if you are MP behind hard or soft cover the bonuses do not stack and you can be shot at.

If you are concealed behind cover you can still be spotted.

Yes and yes (if you get a LOS).

Exactly. You still have to draw LOS. Communication is key here. "I am going behind this hard cover on my first action, firing, then going to MP. It will take me another action to pop up and shoot at you."

I think  I would not be ablot to shott at the model after his actions are complete (unless I can draw LOS to the model).

Always look out for number one, but don't step in number two.
What do you mean Flash Gordon approaching? OPEN FIRE!
The entire Capitol Army.
Don't ever say anything but a 20 before rolling the dice.

Pax

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 07:34:33 PM »
So you would support that going into MP behind a cover would be able to break LOS?

Offline Lopis

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2009, 02:15:18 AM »
So you would support that going into MP behind a cover would be able to break LOS?

I wouldn´t.
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Offline luckyone

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2009, 04:08:30 PM »
Common sense. It would if you cannot draw LOS to the model.

Being able to draw LOS to the model allows you to shoot at it (and be shot at) normally (modifyers of course). Again communication is key here. If you are going  behind hard cover and going to MP, and stating what you are doing, communicate that to your opponent.

Agreeing about actions during gameplsy is key in this case.
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The entire Capitol Army.
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2009, 06:35:07 PM »
The confusion, here, in my opinion, is one of whether the definition matches the intent.

MP, in and of itself, does not block LOS.  Cover, in and of itself, does not block LOS.

If a SZ 2 model is behind Cover that would block LOS for a SZ 1 model, and choose to assume a minimized presence (MP), then the model may be considered to be behind Cover that blocks LOS.  Note, however, that if LOS is blocked to this model, it is blocked from this model as well; in other words, if no model can shoot it, then it may not shoot at any other model.  Common sense is, definitely, the key, here.

Please, let me know if this clarifies the issue.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2009, 10:02:28 PM »
Does it mean that the model can choose if it can shoot and get shot or if it will hide and can not shoot and get shot?

Or is it allways blocked by the cover?
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Pax

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2009, 11:33:25 PM »
The confusion, here, in my opinion, is one of whether the definition matches the intent.

MP, in and of itself, does not block LOS.  Cover, in and of itself, does not block LOS.

If a SZ 2 model is behind Cover that would block LOS for a SZ 1 model, and choose to assume a minimized presence (MP), then the model may be considered to be behind Cover that blocks LOS.  Note, however, that if LOS is blocked to this model, it is blocked from this model as well; in other words, if no model can shoot it, then it may not shoot at any other model.  Common sense is, definitely, the key, here.

Please, let me know if this clarifies the issue.

This certainly is what I was looking for, combining the two, cover and MP, could possibly break line of sight (when everyone on the game table approves of it). And yes you can't shot since your own LOS is also broken. You don't see them and they don't see you.

This means that you can play your troops crawling along a trench line, behind destroyed buildings, etc in a somewhat safe manner. Once you go out of MP though, you will be able to shot and be shot at as normal. It's a very common way to fight in trench battles among other things. :)

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Mp, blocking LOS and such
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 04:54:20 PM »
Does it mean that the model can choose if it can shoot and get shot or if it will hide and can not shoot and get shot?

Or is it allways blocked by the cover?

Common Sense - talk to your opponent, and let him know your intent.  Remember, if the model goes MP, and LOS is blocked, the model will have to spend an Action to see over the cover before it can spend an Action to perform an attack.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!