Author Topic: CC Question  (Read 10122 times)

Bulldog

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CC Question
« on: January 12, 2006, 06:10:01 PM »
In CC it says the damage is the damage of the weapon and if you don't have a cc weapon you use the weapon that you have and apply the resulting CC penalty.  Ok sounds good.  However, take an Assault Marine, has no cc weapon so would use the assault carbine in CC. Apply the panalty it would be -3 to cc.  But the damage is 11, so you mean to tell me the damage is the same from an assault carbine wether I shoot you with it or hit you over the head with it?!?

This doesn't make sense!  Am I missing something here? 

Thanks for your help

Offline Sylvas

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2006, 07:10:47 PM »
I think that the theory is that you are shooting them in CC, not bashing them over the head with the barrell...

B.
Might be wrong though...
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Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2006, 09:13:43 PM »
You are infact shooting them with the Carbine in CC, which is why its so much more difficult to use.

Offline PFC joe

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2006, 11:36:29 PM »
Does anyone have the link where Thom came in and clarified this one?  I can't seem to dig it up and I can't remember whether it went towards non-cc weapons doing ST DAM in CC or whether ya just shot them.  Either way, rifles suck in CC regardless of whether you're shooting someone or clubbing them with it.

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Offline WarlordtheFT

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2006, 09:38:47 AM »
Joe,
If I remeber the rule book, it specifically states that the only weapons that do not use STR in cc were sidearms (pistols and smgs). Some weapons have STR+X though in their profile.
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Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2006, 09:52:27 AM »
I remember the issue being resolved that you're shooting them, but I'm not 100%.  One thing that I am 100% on is that you take the penalty in CC either way, there was a huge debate on the old forums between Grumple and some other folks on the ability to use the rifle as a club for CC:+0 and Str Damage. This was ruled against because it gave the troops more focused on ranged combat a somewhat plausible chance to win in CC, which severly reduced the, already limited, usefulness of CC troops.  So Either way you take the weapons CC range penalty, as for damage I remember it being the full shooting damage.  Anybody else want to weigh in on the issue?

Offline Pietia

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2006, 12:54:14 PM »
AFAIR at this moment the official word on clubbing is "no". Which is funny, since usually this means that the point difference between trooper focused on ranged combat, which has a chance of winning in CC (thus reducing the already limited usefulness of CC troops) and trooper, which has no chance at all is roughly 1 PC - the cost of a pistol. This also means, that some guys (including big bad monsters, like Immaculate Furies) have no chance of killing anybody in CC at all (as they have no cc-capable weapons, even ones with -4 modifier)

Offline Gallagher_Standard_Barer

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2006, 02:09:21 PM »
I'm away from my book at the moment but I'm pretty sure immaculate furies have a natural attack.  Which means they most definitely are useful in CC, albeit slightly less so than with their shotguns.

Offline Dragon62

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2006, 02:27:06 PM »
Furies do not have natural attack.
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Offline Sylvas

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2006, 06:41:33 PM »
I would think that the penalty in CC for the rifles is because a soldier is trying to fire them at an enemy that is too close and is not able to get the gun into proper firing position...

B.
bad at shooting from the hip (or any way for that matter)...
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Offline WarlordtheFT

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2006, 03:08:24 PM »
I think it is stated in the rulebook as ST, though it doesn't come out and say it.

Rule 8.5 state that if you are in CC, the only thing you can do is either break away, or strike with your weapon in CC. If you have no CC weapons, I guess all you can do is break away.


Rule 8.7.5 states that rifles are used for clubbing. Pistols can be used in pistol whipping or shot. It also states that the only stat for ranged weapons used is the CC statistic of the weapon (ie damage is not used).

Then in section 19.1 part 3 states that with the exception of sidearms (pistols and SMGs), ST is used as part of the damage in CC.

Unfortunately, there are a handful of models with shotguns and flamethrowers that are screwed by this ruling. As the CC value of their weapons is N/A (why it was decided shotguns cant be used in CC as a club I don't know since a rifle can, so Tom please enlighten me)

Note: I had penciled in the Faq into my rule book, and did not see any changes to these rules.
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Offline Ruther

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2006, 06:58:16 AM »
Its still the case that models with shotguns and no CC weapon have to break away from CC if they want to fight. It worked very well in any of my games and never seen to set off the gamebalance in a bad way.

It shouldnt be forgotten that Shotguns are template Wepons wich dont need Dice rolled so they pretty deadly till you can catch em in cc (wich is a tactic i used against Darkslayers mercs  after they tore big holes into me  ;) )
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Offline Jibbajabbawocky

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2006, 02:03:21 PM »
I nearly killed a Vulkan Battlesuit with a shotgun. :)
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2006, 06:10:42 PM »
Almost only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.
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Offline Sylvas

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Re: CC Question
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2006, 06:59:21 PM »
Almost only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

don't forget thermonuclear devices...

B.
BOOM...
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