Author Topic: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles  (Read 23673 times)

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 03:48:25 PM »

OK, but how does it work if the vehicle is surrounded by enemies. There are no rules to knock over people like in the editions before and the rule book says in general you need a gap of 4”. You never get out of this CC with or without the chains. Is this correct?

Common Sense this one; move the vehicle, and move the affected models as if they had just made their Dive for Cover rolls.

The chains works against the Praetorian Behemoth and the Mercurian Maculator, too. Why shouldn't it work against vehicles, too?

See exactly how long it takes for the Merc Mac or Behemoth to make their roll to Break (assuming they'd want to - simpler to stay in CC with Secondary Attack and massive damage) - just my opinion, meant more for humor and not for sarcasm.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 06:14:13 PM »
As with the Rams Air, the Banshees can't auto-break away. ;)

Actually, Phil, this may be up for debate.  The Rams Air Cav is not a vehicle, yet it is a Flying Model (unlike Banshees, which must land at the end of their movement).  P. 42 states that Flyers may Break from CC by spending an Action to Break Away, then move normally.

Thanks to jjdodger for pointing this out.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 07:03:31 PM »
Dave I believe Thom already stated that the Rams Air can not auto-break. Trust me I personally believe it should be a Vehicle as it was in the 1st two editions but have excepted Thoms answer to this.
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Offline jjdodger

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 07:12:22 PM »
It doesnt have to do with if its a flyer or not, the book states that any flyer may break from CC. The exact quote is:

If a Flyer wishes to Break Away from Close Combat, it
does not need to roll anything, even if an enemy model wishes
to prevent it. The Flyer needs only to expend one Action to Break
Away and can then Move freely.

the important part is, "even if an enemy model wishes to prevent it"

My question is, what is, and is not, a flyer? Strike skimmer, and dragon bike, no. rams air cav, yes. wailing banshee and jaeger commando? open for interpretation...  i say yes, but thats my opinion.

Offline Dragon62

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2009, 08:51:54 PM »
It's my understanding that the Storm trenchers, 13th Division Banshee's, Wailing banshee's and the Rams
Air are all Jump unit's not Flyers.
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Offline warzoneD

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2009, 12:18:31 AM »
I think we need to revisit the vehicle rules...but of course you all know I think this already.   ;D ;D ;D

Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2009, 01:54:12 AM »
If there was  no change of the units Storm Trenchers are Para deploy and no jumpers or flyers. I would be happy if they would be like the banshees!
The RAm is a pure flyer.
The Banshees are jumpers no flyers.
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2009, 06:21:17 AM »
My bad on the Storm Trenchers, assuming without reading. Dave I agree with you on the RAC can breakaway by spending an action as the rules state. Also to count as a flyer a model must have an altitude score. ;) ;) ;)
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Offline jjdodger

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 07:58:46 AM »
Also to count as a flyer a model must have an altitude score.

I can agree with that, in general. But, what abotu the Jaeger Commando? He doesnt have an altitude stat, but doesnt need to land... 

Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2009, 08:08:15 AM »
I believe we are loosing the main object. How strong is the tangle chain? It can keep a Behemoth at the spot even it will be a short heroic moment. But can it keep flyers (jumpers), flying vehicles, and normal vehicles in CC? I would say it can keep non vehicle flyers and jumpers at the spot for sure. But the vehicles are a difficult choice…. If vehicles would have strength I would say both rules will cancel each other and the vehicles have to do a break away.
Just imagine you are riding a Pegasus bike and you have a chain around you neck, you can try to move but it will hurt you at least as much as the Mourning Wolf’s arm will be hurt.

But as long the vehicles have no data about there strength I would stay with my first interpretation and the chain rules the vehicles. It is in any way a small chance for the Wolves to get in CC with any vehicle.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 08:17:00 AM »
Also to count as a flyer a model must have an altitude score.

I can agree with that, in general. But, what abotu the Jaeger Commando? He doesnt have an altitude stat, but doesnt need to land... 

They do have an altitude. Page 146 Vulture Anti-Gravity Harness says it has a altitude of 5. So it is a mortal flyer like the RAM Air Cav
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 08:42:17 AM »
I would say he's a skimmer just hovering above to ground. The rules clearly mention flying models having an altitude stat.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2009, 10:55:23 AM »
There are only two possibilities. There is a mistake in the studs of the guy or there is a mistake in the discription of his equipment. His Vulture Harness can fly up to the altitude of 5 but he has to stay a couple inch over the ground :).

And to show you there a mistakes possibles with the jaeger commando take alook on page 344. There you can find the guy just for fun, too. ;D

I think they missed to mention the altitude in studs. but it can be just the other way around, too. Maybe time for a 3.5 Edition.... ;)
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Offline Btg

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 11:37:24 PM »
Due to some recent dissagreements on the game board I would like to take this one up again.

I did use the imperial Tangel chains to keep an Orca from flaming out my entire army. Since the orca is only size 3 and not a flyer I beleve they shuld be able to hold it (since the rules do not state otherwise, and the chain say "can not break away").
Mayby a skimmer or a Walker would be a little much, but for the RAMS while standing on the ground, or the battlesuits, I say no question there is a way the chains can be used to stop them. Even if it dose not involve tangeling per say.

The ruses state that a machine may break away even if the enemy tries to prevent it, but this i unrelated to the chains. Trying to prevent break away is something any model can do and it is a separet ruel from the chain rule. Ther chains somply keeps the enemy from breake away, and it dose not require you to "prevent it" otherwise.

I agree with the last post on this subject, if the dark legion giants can be held, so can the smaler machines.

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Chears!

Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2009, 10:56:09 AM »
There was never a final answer about this question. In my opionion it is clear as long it is no vehicle. It has to stay in CC and can not leave.

I think you can keep vehicles in CC, too. But a lot of people think it is not possible. A final solution of the FAQ Team would clearify it for the future.
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night