Author Topic: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles  (Read 12891 times)

Offline Btg

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2009, 01:50:01 AM »
Agree.

Maby a rule related to the size of the enemy would be the best soulution. Anyting up to 1 size bigger then the model holding the chain can be held, the rest can not.
Flyers in the air can never be held, they need to be on the ground. Dose this sound fare? I kind of like it.
Anyhow, I hope there is an awnser to this one soon, many fights will depend on it in the future for me.

Chears!

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2009, 02:44:40 PM »
It is clear.  Vehicles may auto-break from CC.  There are no other stipulations.  It matters not whether tangle chains are being used.

Until new rules come out that supersede and/or clarify this, please, play it this way.

Due to some recent dissagreements on the game board I would like to take this one up again.

I did use the imperial Tangel chains to keep an Orca from flaming out my entire army. Since the orca is only size 3 and not a flyer I beleve they shuld be able to hold it (since the rules do not state otherwise, and the chain say "can not break away").

Logic, alone, says that this is just not so.  Size is not the issue.  Do you think that an ordinary mortal (or tangle chain-equipped Nepharite) could hold onto an Orca?  While this is a game based upon science fiction and other-wordly beings, even the rulebook, itself, says to use common sense where issues such as this arise.  An Orca is Size 3 based not only on it's physical height, but mass and girth, as well.  A Vulkan is Size 3, too; however, it is not a vehicle and is subject to the chains.  A Behemoth is not a vehicle, is the largest Size possible, and is, actually, subject to the chains, by the current rules.  Granted, it doesn't make much sense that a Behemoth should be subject to the chains, but, I have, also, lost my Behemoth to Brass-knuckle-equipped Free Marines, too!

If it is the official ruling you seek, it is in the first line(s) of this post, and it is in the rulebook, also.

Game on!  ;D

If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline warzoneD

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2009, 11:13:52 PM »
As they say in Italian... OY!

D

Offline luckyone

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2009, 05:09:09 AM »
It is clear.  Vehicles may auto-break from CC.  There are no other stipulations.  It matters not whether tangle chains are being used.

Until new rules come out that supersede and/or clarify this, please, play it this way.

Due to some recent dissagreements on the game board I would like to take this one up again.

I did use the imperial Tangel chains to keep an Orca from flaming out my entire army. Since the orca is only size 3 and not a flyer I beleve they shuld be able to hold it (since the rules do not state otherwise, and the chain say "can not break away").

Logic, alone, says that this is just not so.  Size is not the issue.  Do you think that an ordinary mortal (or tangle chain-equipped Nepharite) could hold onto an Orca?  While this is a game based upon science fiction and other-wordly beings, even the rulebook, itself, says to use common sense where issues such as this arise.  An Orca is Size 3 based not only on it's physical height, but mass and girth, as well.  A Vulkan is Size 3, too; however, it is not a vehicle and is subject to the chains.  A Behemoth is not a vehicle, is the largest Size possible, and is, actually, subject to the chains, by the current rules.  Granted, it doesn't make much sense that a Behemoth should be subject to the chains, but, I have, also, lost my Behemoth to Brass-knuckle-equipped Free Marines, too!

If it is the official ruling you seek, it is in the first line(s) of this post, and it is in the rulebook, also.

Game on!  ;D



That was an epic battle. Good guys bad guys and explosions as far as the eye can see. The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2009, 08:24:50 AM »
I like your version BTG more than the offical but I suspected it that the offical ruling has to life with a lack of common sense. That happens often in games.

I would maybe add to the unofficial maybe you can hold one more size with each additional Tangle Chain in CC.

But it is of course not correct but as long the rest of the table agrees. Just do it your way  ;D


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Offline luckyone

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2009, 08:50:03 AM »
It is clear.  Vehicles may auto-break from CC.  There are no other stipulations.  It matters not whether tangle chains are being used.

Until new rules come out that supersede and/or clarify this, please, play it this way.

Due to some recent dissagreements on the game board I would like to take this one up again.

I did use the imperial Tangel chains to keep an Orca from flaming out my entire army. Since the orca is only size 3 and not a flyer I beleve they shuld be able to hold it (since the rules do not state otherwise, and the chain say "can not break away").

Logic, alone, says that this is just not so.  Size is not the issue.  Do you think that an ordinary mortal (or tangle chain-equipped Nepharite) could hold onto an Orca?  While this is a game based upon science fiction and other-wordly beings, even the rulebook, itself, says to use common sense where issues such as this arise.  An Orca is Size 3 based not only on it's physical height, but mass and girth, as well.  A Vulkan is Size 3, too; however, it is not a vehicle and is subject to the chains.  A Behemoth is not a vehicle, is the largest Size possible, and is, actually, subject to the chains, by the current rules.  Granted, it doesn't make much sense that a Behemoth should be subject to the chains, but, I have, also, lost my Behemoth to Brass-knuckle-equipped Free Marines, too!

If it is the official ruling you seek, it is in the first line(s) of this post, and it is in the rulebook, also.

Game on!  ;D



I feel the line on this was drawn at vehicles versus non-vehicles. IMHO non-vehicles should be subject to the chains as written. The chains grab/cut etc. the flesh/cloths equipment of the object it ensnares. Try backing out of a barb wire fence once it gets a hold of you. That is why the lowly private gets to lay on it when the rest of his squad/platoon runs over him/fence. The vehicle itself may have chains all up in it/around it. All you have to do is put it in reverse and break free of the chains. I have respect for the person who would bring chains to a fight when others have live ammunition, but I don't think even if the whole squad was holding on to the chain they would be able to hold back an Orca. It would be harder (even for the big guy - Behemoth) to break free of the chains. Especially if they are around his feet or ensnared on his body. This is solely due to balance not size.
The Vulkan , on the other hand IMHO although not a vehicle should also be able to break free of the chains. Not due to size but to the mechanical nature of the Vulkan itself. One can argue that some balance is need to walk while wearing the Vulkan suit/armor also.

The rules could be clarified/expanded to include a size stipulation for the chains for non-vehicles. This could fix the issues above (minus vehicles). Not sure if we want to keep tweeking them or just go the way they are. Only time can tell if the vehicle update will address this issue.

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2009, 09:04:24 AM »
Making the chains only affect organic matter would be a work on from the above point. A unit without any flesh/soft tissue to cut into are immune. I'd suppose that would include it all? Making the chains work to only affect humanoids or animals would be another wording I suppose?

Offline luckyone

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2009, 09:15:27 AM »
Making the chains only affect organic matter would be a work on from the above point. A unit without any flesh/soft tissue to cut into are immune. I'd suppose that would include it all? Making the chains work to only affect humanoids or animals would be another wording I suppose?

This might work. To expand on this, size clarification that can be caught in the chains would also be needed to help clear up how this works. I can also see the point where size comes into play.
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Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2009, 10:04:14 AM »
To get an end to this topic and to keep it simple I will take the interpretation dmcgee1. The chains don't work against vehicles but against all others.
Otherwise we will need a whole rulebook about the chains. ;D

My hope was to use the Mourning Wolves against vehicles but I will find some other solution ;)
It's just a flesh wound - Black Night

Offline luckyone

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 11:48:58 AM »
To get an end to this topic and to keep it simple I will take the interpretation dmcgee1. The chains don't work against vehicles but against all others.
Otherwise we will need a whole rulebook about the chains. ;D

My hope was to use the Mourning Wolves against vehicles but I will find some other solution ;)

It still is great to talk about/discuss. Who knows what will happen with the rules. Good discussion BTW.
Always look out for number one, but don't step in number two.
What do you mean Flash Gordon approaching? OPEN FIRE!
The entire Capitol Army.
Don't ever say anything but a 20 before rolling the dice.

Offline micmellon

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 12:09:35 PM »
Without discussion this whole place would be pretty senseless, or? ;D  ;D  ;)
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Offline Alchas

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2009, 02:02:48 PM »
Basing it on size seems to make more sense to me. It's IMO both most simple and realistic, as I imagine it would be easier to tangle a small vehicle than a huge giant. As well, size is more clearly defined than what's a vehicle or not. (I can think of some grey areas at least.) But it is what it is...  ;D

Anyway, had a question. If vehicles are immune to tangle chains since they can break from CC automatically, what about mounted hussars? They can also break CC automatically, so are they immune to tangle chains as well?

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2009, 02:02:57 PM »
Without discussion this whole place would be pretty senseless, or? ;D  ;D  ;)

Too true, my friend.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2009, 02:03:33 PM »
Basing it on size seems to make more sense to me. It's IMO both most simple and realistic, as I imagine it would be easier to tangle a small vehicle than a huge giant. As well, size is more clearly defined than what's a vehicle or not. (I can think of some grey areas at least.) But it is what it is...  ;D

Anyway, had a question. If vehicles are immune to tangle chains since they can break from CC automatically, what about mounted hussars? They can also break CC automatically, so are they immune to tangle chains as well?

Currently (and simply), yes.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Lopis

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Re: Tangle Chain vs Flyers and Vehicles
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2009, 03:23:08 PM »
Anyway, had a question. If vehicles are immune to tangle chains since they can break from CC automatically, what about mounted hussars? They can also break CC automatically, so are they immune to tangle chains as well?

Currently (and simply), yes.

Didnīt want to throw that in, but thatīs exactly what I wanted to hear... ;D
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