Author Topic: Samurai seeks Wakizashi  (Read 3085 times)

Offline Silently

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Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« on: November 17, 2008, 07:58:41 PM »
The FAQ states that a figure using Secondary Attack while armed with only one CC weapon uses that weapon at -4 for the second attack.  This is completely clear to me, so my question here is really just me wondering why the Mishima samurai profiles don't have wakizashi to use with their Secondary Attack ability.

Samurai traditionally carry the katana/wakizashi pair, and most of the Mishima miniatures show that.  But for most of the profiles (Ronin Samurai, Bushi Samurai, Hatamoto, etc) the katana is listed as their only CC weapon.  Does that mean I must make all secondary attacks with the katana, using the -4 penalty?  The wakizashi is just decoration on the miniature?  This seems to undercut the samurai-as-cuisinart theme.

The Liege Lord (page 302) is the only one I have found that lists both katana and wakizashi in the profile.  I assume this means he can use the wakizashi for his secondary attack, and not suffer the -4 penalty.

I would propose that the wakizashi be added to all samurai profiles.  At minimum for the Ronin Swordmaster, the Bushido Leader, and the Bushido Swordmaster figures, all of which are modeled wielding two blades.  Or would that change the point costs? 

Maybe I am being too picky about wanting the profiles to match the figures.   :-\

Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 11:16:29 PM »
The FAQ states that a figure using Secondary Attack while armed with only one CC weapon uses that weapon at -4 for the second attack. (..) I assume this means he can use the wakizashi for his secondary attack, and not suffer the -4 penalty.

smart thought, but the -4 is for _all_ secondary attacks. the faq just says what happens if you only _have_ 1 cc-weapon.

Quote
Samurai traditionally carry the katana/wakizashi pair, (..)

but normally donīt use both in battle

Quote from: Wiki
The wakizashi were used as backup weapons and as tools to decapitate defeated enemies, and sometimes to commit ritual suicide. This led to it being referred to as the "Honor Blade" among foreigners. The master swordsman Miyamoto Musashi was known to have wielded a katana and a wakizashi in respective hands in order to fight with two weapons simultaneously for maximum combat advantage.

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I would propose that the wakizashi be added to all samurai profiles.  At minimum for the Ronin Swordmaster, the Bushido Leader, and the Bushido Swordmaster figures, all of which are modeled wielding two blades.  Or would that change the point costs? 

probably not (as the -4 remains), but i would rather use the katana twice..

Quote
Maybe I am being too picky about wanting the profiles to match the figures.   :-\
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Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2008, 05:10:30 PM »
The FAQ states that a figure using Secondary Attack while armed with only one CC weapon uses that weapon at -4 for the second attack.  This is completely clear to me, so my question here is really just me wondering why the Mishima samurai profiles don't have wakizashi to use with their Secondary Attack ability.

Samurai traditionally carry the katana/wakizashi pair, and most of the Mishima miniatures show that.  But for most of the profiles (Ronin Samurai, Bushi Samurai, Hatamoto, etc) the katana is listed as their only CC weapon.  Does that mean I must make all secondary attacks with the katana, using the -4 penalty?  The wakizashi is just decoration on the miniature?  This seems to undercut the samurai-as-cuisinart theme.

Feel free to use the model as you see fit.  I would have no problem if my opponent role-played his minis with the model using both weapons.  However, per the normal rules, the second weapon would be -4 CC, as any other second weapon would be.  Further, I would not penalize the player further by making him use the secondary weapon's DAM profile, as I, too, think that this would be in keeping with the flavor of the model.  In effect, there would be no change to the actual stats, merely to the flavor of the model.  Go for it!

The Liege Lord (page 302) is the only one I have found that lists both katana and wakizashi in the profile.  I assume this means he can use the wakizashi for his secondary attack, and not suffer the -4 penalty.

I would propose that the wakizashi be added to all samurai profiles.  At minimum for the Ronin Swordmaster, the Bushido Leader, and the Bushido Swordmaster figures, all of which are modeled wielding two blades.  Or would that change the point costs?

Ah, now I see.  You are under the impression that the models with the single CC weapon are the only models who suffer the -4 CC when attacking with their weapon, twice.  That is incorrect.  Whether weilding one weapon or two, the -4 CC always applies to any model using it's Secondary Attack.

Maybe I am being too picky about wanting the profiles to match the figures.   :-\

You are not the only one.  Many of us would like a bit more WYSIWYG - it's fun!
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline dmcgee1

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2008, 05:11:27 PM »
Maybe I am being too picky about wanting the profiles to match the figures.   :-\
Gomorrian Emasculator

;D

Nice answer, Nick.  Karma to you!
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline Archer

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 06:58:06 PM »
Maybe I am being too picky about wanting the profiles to match the figures.   :-\
Gomorrian Emasculator

;D

Nice answer, Nick.  Karma to you!

Yep it is....

I would have said the Mishima HW Doom Trooper... ::) ::)
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Offline Silently

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 08:22:48 PM »
Ah, now I see.  You are under the impression that the models with the single CC weapon are the only models who suffer the -4 CC when attacking with their weapon, twice.  That is incorrect.  Whether weilding one weapon or two, the -4 CC always applies to any model using it's Secondary Attack.


Oh yeah, I completelly misread it, after I thought I understood it so clearly.  Apparently I over-focused on the FAQ wording instead of reading it in context of the original rule.

Basically, just nuke this whole question/thread.  Nuke it 'till it glows, then shoot it in the dark.

I will be staring at the rules a little harder before posting my next question.    ::) 

Offline wmeredith

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2009, 11:48:05 AM »
Hello

I really would not worry about it, the wakisashi was mostly ceremonial. It was a badge of station most references I have heard of it's use was to commit sepuku.

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Offline Dr. Nick

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 02:08:53 PM »
and to collect heads...

you would not ruin your battle-blade with some shmucks neck-bone!?!
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Offline Sylvas

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Re: Samurai seeks Wakizashi
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 02:41:30 PM »
I really would not worry about it, the wakisashi was mostly ceremonial. It was a badge of station most references I have heard of it's use was to commit sepuku.

that is correct...it was worn at court functions and would be demanded by the local Daimyo as a sign that a Samurai was being cast out and the Samurai could request his Wakizashi from that Daimyo to commit Sepuku (although it rarely came to that, since a true Samurai would commit Sepuku long before something came to that)...

that and the head collecting thing...

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