embalmed: uncertainity of death

[troy-the-just]

ok, this came up last time we played.

my horned one champion kills the embalmed in 2 actions and goes on wait.  next turn, utilizing the uncertainity of death, the embalmned made its LD roll and reanimated for 1 more turn.  Question:  can my champion, who was standing right were he killed the embalmed, come off wait once the embalmed stands up and engage?

we talked it around and good points were had by all, eventually we resorted to rolling the die to see, only the second or third time we have ever done that.  But i am interested in other opinions.

my thought was, he is on wait, the embalmed comes to life, the champion must make his leadership roll to come off wait and attack.

thoughts

[Southpaw]

Per the Charge section of the Wait rules, page 62. The Embalmed would either have to make a Move action past the Champion, in which case the Champion could come off Wait to intercept, or would have to Charge the Champion directly. In either case it becomes a Charge/Countercharge situation, but the Embalmed must make an Action first.

SP

[joshuaslater]

The controlling player knows it may come back from death, but would the Totem?  It has to be the end of a move action, or an intercept to come off of wait, not a temporary resurrection.  The totem will however be ready to countercharge as it is on wait.  Also, if it's the Horned Ones Totem, Ramming models go first, so chances are pretty good in the big billy goat's favor.

That's my take on it, but I learn some new bit of this game all the time, even after years of it.

[troy-the-just]

"if an enemy model comes within the movement range (mv) of a model on wait (be it a simple movement, charging a nearby model, or performing a trample attack), the model on wait may attempt to react and charge the model."  pg. 62

ok, i read the items in the brackets as examples not being all inclusive.  if a model is in wait, and a deal model at its feet arises, in his movemnt range, i would argue you can attempt to come off wait as it has entered your movement range when before it was not there.

if that isnt the way it was meant to work, it must be in the mechanics of the emblamed.  you have to make the LD roll at the beginning of the next turn, but it actually doesnt arise and come to life until you activate it and it is simultaneous with its activation and movement or attack, than clearly you could attempt to come off of wait?

[joshuaslater]

Sounds like a valid argument.  Like anything else, it's still an LD test for the waiting model, so I think it's balanced either way.   The Embalmed is the only model with this ability, but I think this should be FAQ'ed.

I'll do some more reading of the profile, as I haven't played Stygian, and see if I can run it by Thom sometime when he's not looking at houses for his move. 

 

[troy-the-just]

the more i think about it, here is the way i think it goes:

at the beginning of the turn the stygian player rolls to see if the embalmed comes back for one last turn, but he doesnt have to be activated at that time, and i doubt he just arises.  so, no real action

when the stygian player activates, the embalmed comes to life arising, in anticipation of some movement, he is in direct line fo sight of the champion, so he can try to make a leadership roll to see if he can attack if the embalmed is moving away or whatever, most likely the embalmed will attack him anyway.

[joshuaslater]

Well worded, that.  That's how I would play it.  "Rise from Dead" is not in the list of available actions in the rules, nor is it simple movement, charging, or trampling.

[DogOWar]

I agree.  Until he is activated, you just don't know, but the role should be made at the beginning of the turn so you can wait on your Champion if you wish.  Yeah, I like that, and I don't even play Stygian.

[Coil]

I'm leaning towards that you could use your wait. I'lll have to check the relevant sections of the rulebook first though. 94 times out of a 100 the answer is right there in the book.

[joshuaslater]

Andreas, you've never let us down. 

[Coil]

This was an interesting question. My computer at home is not feeling well so I'll bring the rulebook to work tomorrow and answer from there.

I think I'll be able to answer using p61-62.

[DogOWar]

  Well, as I understand it from p.32 in the book "Should the embalmed be slain during battle it should be left where it eas killed.  At the beginning of teh next turn, it should make a LD test.  If successful it will reanimate for one last turn before it returns to the oblivion awaiting it." 

     What I wonder is that according to actions allowed during wait the Champion can only attack it after it reanimates.  Atleast I think thats the case.  Would the Embalmed be lying prone and have to spend an action standing up, or does it atuomatically start out upright?

[Coil]

The Embalmed is not prone and does not have to spend an action to stand.

I'll be back on the wait part of the question.

[DogOWar]

O.K.  here is the tricky part, atleast for me.  The book says nothing about wounds, so the embalmed gets a complete set of action, regatrdless of the damage it takes.  Am I correct on this?  I read it that way, so Troy could come off wait if its within the campions movement jsut to tie it up and keep it away from the Totem.  Better to lose a Champion than a Totem.

[Coil]

Interesting point. Anyone have the 1st ed book handy (can't find mine) to check if the text was the same back then?