Author Topic: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler  (Read 5068 times)

Offline DogOWar

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Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« on: April 26, 2008, 05:48:02 AM »
Both of these models have the term "Always Braced" in their profiles.  My question is what exactly does that mean?  Do these models always get to attack any incoming charge?  What if they have no actions left?  I know this was discussed before concerning something else, but would like to clear it up.  Thanks.
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Offline Dragon62

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2008, 08:01:29 AM »
It means that those models dont need to use a wait action they are already braced and if charged still get to attack 1st even with no actions left that turn.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 06:58:33 AM »
My Impaler virtually took out a squad of Crimson Blade goblins this way.  We argued over it, but, by the book, permanently braced means any incoming attack. 
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Offline DogOWar

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 01:55:19 PM »
Well thats good to hear.  Thats the way I took it to be played, just wanted to be sure.
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Offline Raga

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 01:42:37 AM »
How about Impaler or Myrmadon being attacked by the ie. Stygian Tree Devil?
Is his first attack (unseen assailant - or something) still intercepted by permanent Brace?

I would appreciate answers from both editions perspective.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 01:55:18 AM by Raga »
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 01:17:29 PM »
[1st edition] Unseen assailant cannot be countercharged at all, as is the first attack of a Stalking model. I would rule that even permanently braced models are taken unawares.
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Offline Raga

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 12:07:36 AM »
Horned Owl:

I'm not so sure here.
The model can use its wait action to brace the incoming attack, they cannot brace if the attacks is not visible.
Impaler and Myrmadon do not have bracing for free (they can brace without wait action) they are braced all the time.

In my opinion the only options are:
a) they intercept all of the attacks even unseen assailants, sneak and back attacks
b) they do not make first strike but they only disable oponents' bonuses for charging
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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 06:20:10 AM »
I usually try to visualise the action if something like this comes up. (The visual part of a Jackal Scout backstabbing a Myrmadon in its tender parts is probably pretty entertaining.)

If a Tree Devil suddenly drops on the back of one of the spearmen, I donŽt see him bringing that long stick around in time. The same goes (arguably) for charging from Hide or similar attacks. (I fight with swords and polearms as a hobby, and a spear is terribly hard to use once the opponent is too close.)
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Offline Raga

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 07:52:32 AM »
You may be right if the battle was in the jungle / forest, but what about desert or clear battlefield?
I imagine Unseen Assailant a model who sits in a cover for several hours to suprise its victim.
The model must be really lucky to always be in a proper place :P (the rule gives great advantage)

I imagine permanently braced model as in defensive stance to minimise openings for the opponent. 
I agree that he cannot attack but should at least negate charging bonuses.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 09:08:32 AM »
I would argue that the Unseen Assailant or Hidden model would strike first, and the model that is Perma-Braced would then swing back if still alive. 

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Offline Horned Owl

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 04:47:14 AM »
Raga: If the Unseen Assailant rule provides great advantage to the model it applied to (which I agree to), the Perma-Brace rule for Myrmadons is even harder on your enemy. Most times, when IŽm fielding more than one Goblin Myrmadon, IŽll voluntary tone that option down so that the Spearmen are automatically braced only against the first charge that turn from their side of the Myrmadon. As it is, JoshuaŽs suggestion sounds like a good compromise to me.
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Offline Raga

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 06:57:17 AM »
Perma-Braced models are still a mystery to me. I don't want to play with the rules that: I don't understand or are not logical.

Let's make a quick summary.

Unseen Assailant and Attack from hidden status override Perma-Braced models - they get full bonuses for charging.
Perma-Braced and Waiting models may strike back if they survive - standard CC attack.

Am I correct?
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 11:30:17 AM »
You can't countercharge a hidden model that is charging you.  We all agree on that.  Brace means essentially always being able to strike first in CC, with unhidden opponents.  I think the rules are only bent by the special abilities.

In this case you have two models bending the rules from special abilities.  The Unseen Assailant always strikes from hidden, but a perma-braced model is technically always holding a wait action, which you use after the surprise of the hidden model striking.

I've seen this come up before when my Wolf Clan Scavenger snuck across the board and struck a waiting Troll Deathseeker on wait, from behind!!  By the rules, a model backstabbed like this has to use it's wait option to turn and attack the model sneaking around.

That's when my Wolf Totem jumped the Troll when it was turned around with no wait counter!!!

It plays very well this way, and I think it's by the rules!!   ::)
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Offline Raga

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 10:12:51 PM »
This topic starts to sound similar to my topic.

In our last battle My waiting Wolf Totem was attacked by Stygian Tree Devil.

According strictly to the rules (as we interpreted them) Tree Devil charged and inflicted a wound, Wolf Totem couldm't do a thing, then the Tree Devil attacked for a second action and missed. Wolf Totem could react only for the second attack that was visible. (Are we wrong?)

If Perma-Braced models are "always waiting" for purposes of Brace special ability, I need one clarication.

Waiting model struck by unsseen assailant or from hidden status can react after first attack, or they have to wait for the second one?
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Braced: Myrmadon & Impaler
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 09:03:21 AM »
I don't know how first edition handled it, but gaming with me with 2nd edition rules, the Wolf Totem would have to use it's wait action to respond to the attack.  The Tree Devil would have to take its chances with that!!  If it survived, it's next action would be an attack, but not from hidden.

It changes the tactics.  If you want to spring the Tree Devil to remove a wait counter from the Totem, you do it knowing you have troops within charging distance to bring it down.
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