Panic Not Fair!!

[Morfdoggs]

In my recent game I lost a unit of swordsmen because of a fumble on the panic roll. I fell this is WAY out of balance since all you get if you roll a perfect is you get to activate them. If that is the case then you should get at least a bonus for a perfect like +4CC +2ST and maybe +2def. Then maybe the two rolls (fumble and perfect) would be balanced.

[joshuaslater]

I gotta check the book on this when I get home!  I know fumbling a panic check you "remove the model from the board" but I thought that if you criticalled you were immune to panic checks for the remainder of the game.  I'm totally out of it from the flu, so bear with me.  Nineteen days of clean livin' without cigarrettes and I feel like hell.  Go figure.   

[Southpaw]

A Perfect on a Panic test automatically rallies the unit, and allows it to take it's full Actions this turn. Perfects on Fear and Dread gain Hate (a perfect against Dread also grants you Steadfast). A Pefect against Horror allows you to take your full actions for the turn, and negates any further Fear, Dread, or Horror checks for the remainder of the battle.

And yes, rolling 20 on any Morale check does, indeed, suck royally...but unbalanced? That's debatable.

[Southpaw]

Though I feel it important to note that since I play mainly Devout, I rarely, if ever, roll for Morale, so I suppose I would tend to be a bit biased. 

[Morfdoggs]

You are teliing me that losing 120+ points on a stupid roll is fair when in return if I roll a 1 that all I get is a stupid activation that is VERY VERY unbalanced.

[joshuaslater]

I too have 20'd out on some checks, so I feel your pain.  I've not found it to be a bad rule/mechanic, only poor dice rolling on my part.  Just remember it goes the other way too when your opponent craps out on the dice.  Also, a critical, involving the unit staying in the fight, and being able to act is far from stupid.  I've seen my whole strategy change when I realized the power of a unit that is unaffected by Panic, and seen the value in having individuals with Commanding Presence to rally panicked units.  It's a huge part of the game. 

Gettin' to use a beat up warband that hangs in there on a panic check right away is balanced by the fact that you would either lose them outright, on a 20, keep'em on a 1, or any other fail is gonna require a rally.  It really gets interesting when you put your Dwarves against the Stygian or Devout.   Southpaw?  You gotta plan for these things even more.  Cheers. 

[Anomander_Rake]

You are right...profits and losses aren't balanced...at least a 1 on the panic roll should get you a immune to panic...

But on the other side, seeing your friends die could be enough for you to wet your pants and leave the field...

As I was the one who rolled for panic and made the swordsmen disappear, I would say sorry...but I'm already partying that we have one problem lost to worry about... But the game will end when the last turn ends...til then you guys have the better cards in your hand than we have...my devout have nearly no troops left, ok one necromancer and two risen warriors...

[Anomander_Rake]

...til then you guys have the better cards in your hand than we have...

Ok, cancel this sentence...I forgot something...today in the morning I thought we should call it a day and begin a new game...the loss of your swordsmen could turn the tides...I just rechecked the game files...but with Hunter, Earl, Viridians, Viridian Champion and a brand new warband of Tribal Warriors...I don't know...it will be hard for both sides...but I think it got interesting again...

[Southpaw]

I too have 20'd out on some checks, so I feel your pain.  I've not found it to be a bad rule/mechanic, only poor dice rolling on my part.  Just remember it goes the other way too when your opponent craps out on the dice.  

Exactly. Well said.

[Ruther]

i dont think this mechanic is out of balance. Usualy you start rolling for panic when you at half the size of your Warband wich means there isnt a lot left to fight (unlike you play with big ones but than you know the risks and adavantages and have to live with them). It is rarely a Game decider, but its a Situation wich can happen sometimes and there are ways to prevent panic with standards at all.
Not to forget the the fumble on a Panic roll dont occur very often and most of the time it only send home a few guys (as it even occurs less on the frst panic roll of  a unit). Like in my last game one lonly archer fled the field (wow what a game decider ). So after having bad luck once and than come here saying its a brocken rule is .

No offence just my humble opinion 

[Anomander_Rake]

Don't forget that there are spells that can panic a unit...when something like that happens in one of the first turns...you will have to rethink you strategies...

Or think about the War-Torkha...spell it and your enemy looses one heavy-hitter...and some 100+ points...

[Ruther]

i checked my book and found 2! spells so far (one for Stygians, one for Jade Elves) both have limited Ranges (18 and 16) and there are ways to deal with the casters (ie prevent LOS use anti caster units etc.) to prevent it. So i dont think this will make a big impact at all (and when it happens geeze its a "dice" game if you dont want random effects play chess ^^).

There could be a ruling that 20's on magical invoced panic wont make your unit flee tho, as you just fumbled a Save Test against magic not a real panic one. I doubt that a lot of players would use the spell just for the reason that they expect their opponents to fumble it  . A direckt damage or support spell will be nearly everytime a more solid choice for doing damage.

The only unavoidable Panic rolls are the moral ones and for them its just fine. I dont understand why ppl want to change the rules coz they personal dont like them (or had bad dice luck), thats a bit spoiled isnt it?  .

Just some freindly thoughts   

[Wedge]

Here's my way around the mechanic to minimize the effect when it happens.  Keep in mind it only happens once out of 20 panic checks (average).

I never by squads larger than 7 (unless the minimum is higher) if they can panic.  Morfdoggs squad of Swordsmen was an impressive 12.  He wisely chose the Steadfast Standard for his STB, but the model was unfortunately killed early on.

My advice?

If they can panic, keep the squad at 7 or less, and always protect your STB if he has the steadfast banner.  Another helpful tip is keep an individual close for the higher LD check when you roll for morale and the chances for rally.  Of course, none of that matters if you roll a 20.

I would not be opposed to the rule of ruling a 1 on a panic check means you never check for panic again for that unit for the rest of the game... not a bad trade off there.

[Morfdoggs]

I agree with Wedge I am not saying that it has to go I am just saying you should get something more for a perfect thats all.

[joshuaslater]

Dig it Morf.  I like the idea of needing no further panic checks for the rest of the game.  That unit shows mettle with a critical and gives a good account of themselves/ sells their lives dearly.   'Somethin' along that line.  Cheers.