Author Topic: Sweep Attack (Revisited)  (Read 10066 times)

Wedge

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Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« on: December 19, 2005, 10:48:08 AM »
Over a year ago on the previous forum there was a discussion which involved Thom and many other of the Chronopia "knowledgable" that hammered out a ruling concerning what weapons may sweep attack.  I cannot locate among my personal files anything referring back to it, nor can I find the reference in the FAQ.

Having said all that, I do remember (unless I am getting old) that there were some proposed changes to the weapons that CAN perform a sweep.  Part of the discussion emerged from someone complaining that Elf Axemen could sweep but their Stygian Axemen couldn't.  Similarly, I interjected with, what about Viridian Lords and Hearthguard?  Other players chimed in as well, and this prompted Thom to make an on the spot ruling which I have abided by since then.  Unfortunately, I don't think it ever made its way into the FAQ.

My proposal is to revist this topic and discuss it further to make sure that this time a clarification (or definitive answer) is logged in the FAQ.

Here is my proposal:

All two handed bladed weapons without a damage multiplier should be allowed to sweep attack.  This would include Two handed Swords, Battle Axes, reaver axes, chitin axes, etc.  Obviously, the non-bladed two handed weapons cannot sweep, but they can do extra bludgeoning damage.

Would this proposal incur a point cost difference?  I don't think it would.  IMHO, it isn't that important of a change to warrant a point increase.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Anyone?

Offline Southpaw

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2005, 07:41:29 PM »
That sounds reasonable. I'll go through the list of current 2-handed weapons, to see if this could possibly present a mechanic or rules problem with someone.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2005, 06:54:11 AM »
Sweep is one of the most fun aspects of this game.  I like your idea of opening it up.  The penalty to each successive die should be balance enough. 
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Offline Southpaw

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2005, 11:08:51 AM »
Yep, I think so, too. After going through all the weapons and army lists and such, I think allowing non-multiplier weapons to Sweep is perfectly fine.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2005, 11:34:31 AM »
Fun to stack Berserk with sweep.  Mwahahahaha.  Cheers.
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Offline Coil

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2005, 12:42:33 PM »
One drawback though is that it would require changing something which is pretty clear in the book. Some weapons have Sweep, some don't.

I have a bit of an aversion to changing things that aren't errors or in need of clarification.

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2005, 04:08:28 PM »
One drawback though is that it would require changing something which is pretty clear in the book. Some weapons have Sweep, some don't.

I have a bit of an aversion to changing things that aren't errors or in need of clarification.

/The Purist

Yes, I do agree with you on that point. The old addage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", immediately comes to mind.

Though the original problem about Sweep, that, with models with seemingly identical weapons, one could Sweep, and the other could not, deserves some further discussion, I think, as their original concern does raise questions.
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Wedge

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2005, 10:43:35 AM »
My reason for expression concern was because of the recent PBEM game we are playing.  My VL Champion did two successive sweep attacks and killed four Cursed in melee.  Coil and I have been playing sweep this way and with others for a couple years now... based solely on response from Thom about the rule.  He stated that all bladed two handed weapons can sweep (personal discussion at GenCon 03 in Indy).  Post-convention I brought it up on the old forum and he replied to the positive about his previous statement at the convention.

I am bring it up again because I JUST noticed it wasn't in the FAQ.  I don't want to cheat Anomander_Rake in the game by doing what I did so I brought it up again for clarity purposes.

Obviously, you know what my stance on the topic is... anyone else have input?

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2005, 02:27:47 AM »
Don't Worry! I don't feel cheated... would I've known the rule I would have thought about using my damn cursed the way I did...I didn't expect that 4 Cursed wouldn't be able to bring down some tree-hugging VL Champion... ;) But with my luck I should have known better...

By the Way...I don't feel that this rule is right the way you will do it. You say that all weapons without a dam multiplier can sweep, the others not...so first of all, why shouldn't x2-weapons sweep as well? Most guys using a two-handed sword should be strong enough to even sweep with a serrated or jagged edge...

On the other side what happens to those weapons used my individuals or warbands with the Killing Stroke special ability? Will they be able to sweep or not?

I think the idea to make all two-handed edged weapons sweep is ok, but it should be all, or nothing! The units should be equal...there is no sense why one axemen can do it, the other not...If it should be a problem to change this rule, than I would say that sweep should become a special ability for those units who now have weapons able to sweep...
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Offline Coil

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2005, 03:01:46 AM »
What about Blade Maidens (Killing Stroke and Two-handedswords) or Black Sisters for that matter (Two-handed swords, high CC and 3 actions)? Do we really want units like that Sweeping?

It is a balance issue and putting Sweep on a big nasty model would probably warrant a PC change. I believe one should be very careful about making such a change, since it might unbalance some units if one isn't careful.

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2005, 07:20:42 AM »
I gotta side wth Coil on this one. While some units might seem to be deprived giving Sweep to everyone will create the Uber-individuals and Death-units that plagued 1st ed Warzone. The point to remember is that Sweep is not a function of the weapon but a skill of the user. Anyone can swing a sword back and forth but a controlled swing that engages multiple enemies without negating the fighters defensive capability to a great extent. That reuires training - extensive training.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2005, 09:38:08 AM »
You guys are right.  Have a great Christmas.  Cheers.
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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2006, 07:25:16 AM »
Does the Vulture Talon Lord have sweep with a x2 weapon (Spear of Virtue, I think)?
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Offline Anomander_Rake

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2006, 04:56:00 AM »
Does the Vulture Talon Lord have sweep with a x2 weapon (Spear of Virtue, I think)?

The Rules say no on this one...

If you play it the way Wedge does, I would even say no. The Spear is a polearm and nothing like a sword or axe that should be able to sweep. Something like halberd with an axe-shaped head, well, that would be a thing to discuss...

just my two cents...

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Offline Ruther

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Re: Sweep Attack (Revisited)
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2006, 05:08:27 AM »
And thats why it is the best way to only play weapons with sweep wich have it in their stat's  ;D
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