Author Topic: Close Combat and Reach  (Read 4570 times)

Offline dmcgee1

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3179
  • Karma: +147/-7
  • Ask away!
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 11:37:55 AM »
ok, let me expand my explanation..

"Weapons with the Sweep Effect allow the attacker (in close combat) to strike at multiple targets per attack action . The
model with the sweep weapon designates the first opponent in Base-to-Base contact with it and makes a CC roll. Should this roll
hit and score a wound , the attack may continue to the next model within 1" of it. Each attack is resolved separately and should the
attack fail to either hit or wound, then the sweep attack is over. There is a penalty to hit during a sweep attack of -1 to the first
model, -2 to the second model, etc.
Poiearms with the Sweep ability are limited to the 1" range structure and do not gain any additional range for this kind of
attack"

To me, this means you must be in "CC", not just performing a "CC Attack". To be in "CC", you must be in base contact. Polearms allow a "CC Attack" from outside "CC".

The flaw in you logic arises when the first model is killed.  As long as the polearm can still Reach (1", or 4" in the case of the Behemoth) then it may continue to Sweep.  It is, technically, still in CC as it may make CC attacks, per the rule concerning polearms.
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline jjdodger

  • Board Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2007, 11:39:49 AM »
As long as the 1st model was in Base Contact, then i agree with you. If not, then no sweeping! and, each model must be no further that 1" from each other.

Offline dmcgee1

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3179
  • Karma: +147/-7
  • Ask away!
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2007, 12:00:33 PM »
As long as the 1st model was in Base Contact, then i agree with you. If not, then no sweeping! and, each model must be no further that 1" from each other.

Well, fine, if you're going to use logic and the letter of the rules, I'm taking my Behemoth and going back to Sedna (or wherever in the Oort cloud from where the Darkness sprang). ;)
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline jjdodger

  • Board Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2007, 12:21:35 PM »
LOL!

Offline Southpaw

  • Board Member
  • The Board
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
  • Karma: +44/-0
  • I see lead people.
    • Topkick's Trading Post
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2007, 02:29:09 PM »
The flaw in you logic arises when the first model is killed.  As long as the polearm can still Reach (1", or 4" in the case of the Behemoth) then it may continue to Sweep.  It is, technically, still in CC as it may make CC attacks, per the rule concerning polearms.

That is the way I read it, as well. I agree.

SP
Webmaster/Manager
Topkick's Trading Post

The one truth of the Dark Lord is this: death is inevitable, flesh decays, and power commands...

From The Scrolls of the Dead
Negral Zar'akin

Offline warzoneD

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1206
  • Karma: +73/-0
  • Ad Astra Per Aspera
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2007, 03:26:39 PM »
It seems to me the problem here lies in rules vs. "reality." 

Obviously the rulebook couldn't possibly cover every variable and scenario, so I think there is a conflict here that was not examined/discovered when the polearm reach rules, sweep, and the break away rules were created. 

I agree with the camp that says if the enemy is attacked with a pole arm they are engaged in close combat (CC).  The base to base contact consideration must be expanded to include polearms and their distance in some fasihion.

If two fighters were to meeet and one had a spear and one had a dagger, the dagger wielder would gain no benefits for escaping the spear wielder simply because they weren't closer together.  Just as two boxers (say Mayfield and Hatton), where one has a 7" reach over the other - the boxer with the shorter reach is at a disadvantage.

A warrior fighting an opponent with a polearm will have to try just as hard to escape being damaged by the weapon as they would if fighting an opponent with a mace or axe.  Quite simply, THAT was the advantage of fighting with polearms - being able to engage in melee combat from a distance.  And to me CC = melee combat of any kind (not just fighting cheek to cheek).

If anything it seems to me the polearm wielder (i.e. the fighter with the reach advantage) could break away freely and NOT the other warrior could NOT.






Offline dmcgee1

  • Board Member
  • Administrator
  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3179
  • Karma: +147/-7
  • Ask away!
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2007, 05:17:28 PM »
...to me CC = melee combat of any kind (not just fighting cheek to cheek)...

Remind me never to fight with you!  ;D
If sing, sang, and sung, sink, sank, and sunk, and drink, drank, and drunk, how is it that it isn't bring, brang, and brung, think, thank and thunk, and ding, dang, and dung?

Don't even get me started about bad, badder and baddest.  Run, ran AND run...again?  C'mon!

Offline warzoneD

  • Member Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1206
  • Karma: +73/-0
  • Ad Astra Per Aspera
Re: Close Combat and Reach
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2007, 11:33:53 PM »
Hahaha - couldn't resist the metaphor.

D