Author Topic: Giving Orders?  (Read 7164 times)

Offline troy-the-just

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2007, 07:52:20 AM »
17 20's, now that is hilarious, unless it happens to be you that is rolling them.  We had a game not too long ago, where it seemed, at least, that Dog missed every saving roll, every armor roll, every LD roll, etc.  if you hit him, you wounded him, if he might panic, he did, if he could fall, he fell.  other than that he rolled ok, but it is hard to over come those odds, i was on the floor laughing, i felt kinda bad afterwords.


but this last game, it was the exact opposite, he made every armor roll and to cc roll, he was a machine, now he did panic, and the sight of slow, itty bitty, dwarves trying to flee is fun, like hitting fish in a barrel, thie stubby little legs wouldnt carry them away from anyone, it was even worse at I had 1 survivor of a band of 12 militia, that made all the panic rolls, right on their butt, hacking them down, it was good fun

Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2007, 08:24:52 AM »
The gods of dice and pewter can be so fickle.
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline Buzzu

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2014, 08:22:24 AM »
Seven years ago you discussed about the GIVE ORDERS action. Well, there's something I don't agree with and I need some clarifications.

The "chain effect" Josh illustrated can't be done. As stated in the rules, the GIVE ORDER action can be done only ONCE per game turn.
This means that, if you want to give order you have to choose if you want to activate another hero, or a warband.
And this is correct. Without this limitation, following the reasoning of Josh, I could play a Sons of Kronos combo like this: a Blade maiden champion (LD16) gives order to a Wird (LD15) who casts a spell and gives order to a warchariot (LD13) who charges and gives order to a Viridian Champion (LD10) who gives order to a viridian warband. I move half of my army in a single turn!!!

I'm pretty sure about it (if you want I can check the rules to find the right page).
This is confirmed also by the fact that some particular units have the SPECIFICATION in their description that they're allowed to activate TWO different warbands. This units are The Devout Unnamed and the Firstborn Earl, swordmaster noble. And Count Ellytrion from the elves, I think.

What I would like to know, as Josh told, is this rule, that has to be cleared once and for all:

While the rules specify that: to rally another unit your individual needs a higher LD stat than the unit (warband or individual) he's trying to rally, this is not specified in the normal GIVE ORDERS action.

Does this mean that an individual with a lower LD can give orders to a warband with a higher one?
This would explain why I have a Viridan Champion with commanding presence even if he got the LD of a dog (and not a joke: the same of my warhounds...).

Please answer, 'cause this will make a great difference in my composition choises and movements through the battlefield.

Josh also told that, if you want to give orders to another individual, your LD has to be higher than the one you're ordering to. Where is it written? Why this should work for an individual and not for a warband?

In any case, I confirm that you have to use all the actions of a hero BEFORE activating the unit he gave orders to.
This means that I imagine the individual shouting something closer to a "Follow me, guys!" than a simple "Attack!", unless he stays back letting the others do the work ;)


Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2014, 11:26:39 AM »
I will figure out where I got my information from and get back to you after Talamania this weekend!
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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Offline Raga

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 03:27:39 AM »
Buzzu You are wrong.

"Model cannot give order more than once per turn" is not the same as "give order action cannot be used more than once per turn".

The leadership chain in your example is perfecty correct. These are individual models and they give order once per turn EACH.

The same goes for casting. The same rule:
"You cannot cast the same spell more than once per turn, it is far too draining"

Does it mean that if Enlightened casts a spell (i.e Time Slip) and gives order to a Chronomancer then the Chronomancer cannot also cast Time Slip because it is too draining?
If they can cast the same spell in one turn because they are two different models, so giving orders limit also applies to the model (not global turn limit).

As far as I remember the individual model can give orders to any Warband regardles of LD. The only limitation is when Individual gives order to another Individual.
(It is written on page 61 - second paragraph under Give Orders)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 03:58:22 AM by Raga »
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2014, 10:12:19 AM »
Raga is correct.  It's in the rules.
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Offline Buzzu

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2014, 03:59:55 AM »
It's awful.  :(

I think that the chain in my example is unreal. It's not possible that an army waits doing nothing while the opposite army is planning and moving as a single man all together. In our house rules, we play as I told, and this compels you to decide really carefully who move. It's balanced. Winning initiative with the chain effect is devastating.

Anyway, I'm happy to hear that I can give orders to a warband with a higher LD of my hero. This can be nice.

Thanks for your answers, guys.

Offline Raga

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2014, 05:36:01 AM »
Heh.

Do you think it is real when you move your last warband in a turn for 2 full actions, win initiative and move the same warband again charging enemy ranged troops?
Theoretically that Warband just ran 2 full turns and the Crossbowmen just stared at them while being slaughtered.

Keep in mind that your example is just pure theory because practically you could move maximum 3 units in one turn.
Advancing half of the army without attacking is not dangerous and attacking with leadership chain requires perfectly placing the troops in previous turn.

Imagine Leadership chain as a perfect strategy for the turn when the units follow the timed orders of the general with maximum efficiency.

For me it is not as unimaginable as the example at the begining of my post.
Let us drink to the power drink to the sound
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Drink to your brothers who are never to fall
We're brothers of metal here in the hall

Offline Buzzu

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2014, 03:36:26 PM »
You're speaking about a second turn. You could place the crossbowmen on wait in the previous turn.  ;D  Or, they already shot. So they had an opportunity. :)

Anyway, the important thing in a game is having fun, and when something happens to be unliked by the players, I think they're allowed to modify it.

I will try a combo of giving orders, and let you know the effect. Maybe I'm overestimating it's power.

Offline Raga

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Re: Giving Orders?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 04:34:18 AM »
Of course you are free to make your homerules - I did the same for the first edition (in fact it was mainly claryfying)

I think You are right. You are overestimating the leadership chain.

The normal leadership restrictions allow you to move any number of individual models and only one warband.
The individual moves first and the warbad followes - it is mostly not good if enemy has ranged troops waiting.

From my experience the player who has more units than his opponent has the tactical advantage (especially if he has units with unseen assailant ability)

The most dangerous situation is when you can move two warbands engaged in close combat at the same time (In this case it is a special ability of a model - not the leadership issue)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 04:35:57 AM by Raga »
Let us drink to the power drink to the sound
Thunder and metal are shaking the ground
Drink to your brothers who are never to fall
We're brothers of metal here in the hall