Strategies against OS Elves....

[Anomander_Rake]

Hi out there,

today I lost again against the Obsidian Serpent elves...

I took Hearthguards and Viridian Lords against one Golem and Count Elithrion....after some attempts I could score two wounds on the count, but wasn't able to make even one wound to the Golem....

Has anyone of you ideas or strategies to get rid of this units?

THX and greetz,

Anomander Rake

[Wedge]

Hi out there,

today I lost again against the Obsidian Serpent elves...

I took Hearthguards and Viridian Lords against one Golem and Count Elithrion....after some attempts I could score two wounds on the count, but wasn't able to make even one wound to the Golem....

Has anyone of you ideas or strategies to get rid of this units?

THX and greetz,

Anomander Rake

Go a little more indirect than trying to smack the big guys head on.  Try taking a warband of 5 Warhawks or more... go hunting for the Black Lotus Eater while the Golem is still amongst his troops.  When you kill the BLE the big boy will rampage and possibly help you kill his troops.  As for count Elithrion, he's "out-of-balance" and will be very hard to kill no matter what you do try to hit him with.  The double armor save is too much for standard troops to affect.  Your best bet is Viridian Lords or Blade Maidens they do the most damage in a swing and it will be harder to save against.

One important thing to note:  if you are playing w/o objectives or enough terrain you're just increased the odds that you will lose.  SoK is a finesse army that requires a moderate amount of terrain and something that will force missile heavy armies to move toward objectives.  If they get to sit back and wait for you with crossbows and longbows you've already stacked the deck against yourself.  Insist that you and your opponent play with objectives and a decent amount of terrain, if you aren't already.

Beyond that... roll better!

[joshuaslater]

You have to shoot the Count with lots of arrows (remember, a 1 is a wound!) or high damage weapons.  Resilience is not the incredible power that it would appear.   I've seen this model killed often enough--I used his stats for a Dwarf hero I converted, and only changed the movement--and he's been killed plenty.  Wedge's advice about terrain is totally accurate.  Try using the mist rules as well that Firstborn posted--in addition to fighting in forest with limited line of sight.  That should even the odds greatly.  Cheers. 
Oh yeah, take out that spell caster and let the Golem run amuck--Wedge knows his stuff, yo.

[Anomander_Rake]

Go a little more indirect than trying to smack the big guys head on.  Try taking a warband of 5 Warhawks or more... go hunting for the Black Lotus Eater while the Golem is still amongst his troops.  When you kill the BLE the big boy will rampage and possibly help you kill his troops.  As for count Elithrion, he's "out-of-balance" and will be very hard to kill no matter what you do try to hit him with.  The double armor save is too much for standard troops to affect.  Your best bet is Viridian Lords or Blade Maidens they do the most damage in a swing and it will be harder to save against.

Ok, I haven't tried the indirect possibilities so far...perhaps they will work, I assume it depends on how you use terrain and so on...even after all these years of playing wargames games like chronopia let me wonder what I've done up to now...maybe playing BattleTech for 15 years spoiled me in a way I never thought off...

I hope the warhawks will be able to do it the next time (and not be shot down by the archers...)

Josh, the problem with your advice and SOKs is, there aren't that many missile units in my list...with longbowmen, archers or crossbowmen the Count wouldn't be that much of a problem....but to shoot him will only work with usable terrain...and SOKs don't like open terrain...

[Wolfshade]

   Don't slingers still have Hide? With this, Outmanuever and the horendous rate of fire they have, they seem to be excellent mage hunters.  How would that work? We don't use deployment cards, so some input from those out there that do would be good. 

[Wedge]

   Don't slingers still have Hide? With this, Outmanuever and the horendous rate of fire they have, they seem to be excellent mage hunters.  How would that work? We don't use deployment cards, so some input from those out there that do would be good. 

Slingers work great against spell casters... truthfully they work great against everything.  But then using deployment cards you have to GUESS where the spell caster is going to be.  An option that would involve some luck would be to use the 30pt Deployment Card option and reveal 2 of the OS Elf deployment cards to give you a hint on where to put the slingers.  Personally, I think this idea may work once in a while but not that often.  The Hawks are the best option because they can move the quickest out of the SoK Army (ignoring terrain)... and when used correctly they CAN avoid the Elf archers.  Use the Wyrd to place a Wall of Thorns in front of the archers or to cover the flank that the Warhawks are advancing on.  Be creative... there are lots of options.  I would rely on the Wall of Thorns more than the Dragon Mist spell--only because the WoT has many more uses throughout the game.

[joshuaslater]

The slingers are even better than the archers!  That high rate of fire means more opportunities to roll 1's!  Don't waste an action to aim; just grab a handful of d20's and let fly. 

Your post has inspired me to let my friend run the Obsidian Serpent Elves I'm painting; it's always more rewarding to play the tough armies and win.  Cheers.

[Firstborn]

Hi out there,

today I lost again against the Obsidian Serpent elves...

I took Hearthguards and Viridian Lords against one Golem and Count Elithrion....after some attempts I could score two wounds on the count, but wasn't able to make even one wound to the Golem....

Has anyone of you ideas or strategies to get rid of this units?

THX and greetz,

Anomander Rake

Anomander Rake,

You need to kill the Lotus Eater. That is priority #1.

If not, he can just keep bringing in more Golems IF you manage to kill one in the first place.

Kill the Lotus Eater, and there is a 50\50 chance it will turn on him.

When dealing with the count, I would recommend a squad of Viridian Lords. They
will work him over if the whole squad charges him.

Also, an un-activated squad of slingers can be murder against the count. They don't do high damage on
their own, but they get A LOT of shots.

[Anomander_Rake]

After all, I don't like this sneaky way of killing the summoner...

In my view all models should have strengths and weaknesses...the Golem has a lot of the first but nothing of the latter.

A good tactician will only once get his summoner get killed by warhawks or slingers...the next time he will bring a warband only to shield the summoner, that's how I would do it.

I don't think that slingers will be that deadly on the Count. With Armor 22 he will make his saves against 18 or less. And he rerolls any wound, in fact he gets two saves...when did you last roll two 19-20 in a row? And that 3 times, cause the guy has 3 wounds?

just my two cents...

Anomander Rake

[Topkick]

The Adamantite Golem's main weakness is the Lotus Eater. You don't even have to kill the summoner - just burn his actions and the Golem becomes uncontrolled. If possible gain control of the Lotus Eater and use the crevasse spell. Open it under the Lotus Eater and the Golem and you got a twofer. Hell if you can get the Count in the spell too then you score the Trifecta.

[Firstborn]

After all, I don't like this sneaky way of killing the summoner...

In my view all models should have strengths and weaknesses...the Golem has a lot of the first but nothing of the latter.

A good tactician will only once get his summoner get killed by warhawks or slingers...the next time he will bring a warband only to shield the summoner, that's how I would do it.

I don't think that slingers will be that deadly on the Count. With Armor 22 he will make his saves against 18 or less. And he rerolls any wound, in fact he gets two saves...when did you last roll two 19-20 in a row? And that 3 times, cause the guy has 3 wounds?

just my two cents...

Anomander Rake

Anomander Rake,

"I don't think that slingers will be that deadly on the Count. With Armor 22 he will make his saves against 18 or less. And he rerolls any wound, in fact he gets two saves...when did you last roll two 19-20 in a row? And that 3 times, cause the guy has 3 wounds?"

Oh no - not at all.

Lets take a squad of 6 slingers and a leader. Equip the squad with night stones.

Have the slingers aim; remember the ROF of the slings is 2/1

That equals 14 stones flying at the count, DAM: 8x2 per stone.

Odds are, the count will not survive it.

[Anomander_Rake]

Lets take a squad of 6 slingers and a leader. Equip the squad with night stones.

Have the slingers aim; remember the ROF of the slings is 2/1

That equals 14 stones flying at the count, DAM: 8x2 per stone.

Odds are, the count will not survive it.

OK, 7 slingers could bring him down possibly...but 7 haunted stones means you have to spend another 63 ( 7 * 9 points per night stone )...compared to the cost of one count it would be a good choice. I have to think about it for a while! Good idea anyway!

Anomander Rake

[Wedge]

Lets take a squad of 6 slingers and a leader. Equip the squad with night stones.

Have the slingers aim; remember the ROF of the slings is 2/1

That equals 14 stones flying at the count, DAM: 8x2 per stone.

Odds are, the count will not survive it.

OK, 7 slingers could bring him down possibly...but 7 haunted stones means you have to spend another 63 ( 7 * 9 points per night stone )...compared to the cost of one count it would be a good choice. I have to think about it for a while! Good idea anyway!

Anomander Rake

Um... No, they don't cost that much.  It only costs 9 points to equip the ENTIRE warband with the nightstones.  That's why it is only one shot for the whole game--63 points for only one salvo would be WAY to expensive.  I think you've been cheating yourself for quite some time with the slingers if you have been paying for cursed stones for each model.  Whether you have 4 or 8 slingers the cost stays the same.  That's why I like larger warbands of them.

The only way to get rid of the count is gang up on him with models that do a lot of damage.  Depending on what Tribe you like to play I would hit him with Blade Maidens, Viridian Lords, or Hearthguards.  All the heavy hitters should crush him pretty quickly.

[Anomander_Rake]

Um... No, they don't cost that much.  It only costs 9 points to equip the ENTIRE warband with the nightstones.  That's why it is only one shot for the whole game--63 points for only one salvo would be WAY to expensive.  I think you've been cheating yourself for quite some time with the slingers if you have been paying for cursed stones for each model.  Whether you have 4 or 8 slingers the cost stays the same.  That's why I like larger warbands of them.

Then I've been the lucky one or made it involunarily right. I've never paid more than one point for all troops...but I came to believe after I read it last that it should be bought for every member of the warband.

I think some of the effect are really heavy on the target so paying it for every member would equal the costs and the outcome...

BTW the Heart Seeker with 5(x2)+ST and RC+2 is for his 8 points the best cursed shot I would say...using the idea of Firstborn you will get by aiming 11x2 damage and RC+6...I think with this even the Golem will get his problems... after all you could even spell the sword of Gwrnach and one of those tiny slingers would do 12x3 damage instead...

WOW I think I really underestimated those slingers...

Anomander Rake

[joshuaslater]

Now go get'em!  Post a report when you savor your victory.