Targeting Indv. w/warbands.

[DogOWar]

     I was wondering about  template weapons that target warbands that have Individuals within 4", and therefore considered part of the warband, per p.69. 

     Say for instance that a unit of Dream Warriors with a CK out front a couple of inches is targeted by a FB Lowbow warband for HOA.  Now, I'm assuming that the template for HOA would still be placed on the leader of the Dream Warriors, assuming that the leader can be seen.  Is this correct? 

[troy-the-just]

thats my understanding, any individuals within 4" of a template weapon, is considered part of the warband.  i think i even read that in the book somewhere.  what you planning dog?

[DogOWar]

    Yes, thats the way we played it.  I just wanted to double check that the Indv. does not become the new "leader", since he is in front of the warband.   I think that the Indv. does not, but just double checking.  Sometimes it is diffficult to interpret the sublties of our beloved game.  

     If the Indv. blocks LOS, the I assume that the warband cannot be targeted?

[Southpaw]

When using Hail of Arrows, the Leader of the firing unit must have LOS to ANY member of the target unit. If an Individual is within 4" of a Warband, he is considered part of that Warband for targeting purposes. So he is fair game.

So, that being the case. You may NOT Hail of Arrows and individual model if he is not within 4" of a friendly Warband. However if that Individual is within 4" of a friendly Warband, he may be the center of a Hail of Arrows, which will affect the Individual and the associated Warband.


SP

[Southpaw]

In previous editions, for Hail of Arrows, you had to target Leader to Leader. This is no longer the case. It is the firing unit's Leader to ANY member of the target Unit.

[DogOWar]

Just dug out my book and read this again.  What confused me was a sentence 1/2 way down on page 87 "If the Leader of the target Unit is not between MD and MX range, then the attack fails and the firing Unit's Actiom's are wasted."  

Now, being a long time 1st edition player, which my brain still crosses over to now and again, I am reminded that in 1st edition you must have LOS to enemy leader for HOA to work.  So I was just confused alittle about how this is worded.  I get it now.

Thanks for helping me see thru this.

[DogOWar]

In previous editions, for Hail of Arrows, you had to target Leader to Leader. This is no longer the case. It is the firing unit's Leader to ANY member of the target Unit.

Yeah, that is part of the problem, we still "fall back" to 1st edition sometimes without realizing it.  Its amazing how one badly worded sentence stuck in my mind and refered me back to 1st edition.

Thanks Southpaw.

[Southpaw]

It's a poorly worded sentence it should read:

"If the leader of the target unit is between MD and MX range, the leader of the firing unit must make an LD test to see if the attack is successful"

[Southpaw]

It should read "If the Leader of the Firing Unit is not between MD and MX range, then the attack fails and the firing Unit's Actions are wasted".

The location of the leader of the target unit is irrelevant, as you are no longer required to target Leader to Leader, and can target any member of the Target Unit.

SP

[Southpaw]

 If the Indv. blocks LOS, the I assume that the warband cannot be targeted?

By the literal interpretation of the rules (which is my standpoint on it), yes they can be targeted. There was a discussion on this exact subject some time ago.

If I recall correctly, the scenario was that an Individual was within 4" of a Warband, but only visible model was the individual. Can you Hail of Arrows?

Per the rules, yes you can. It's cheesy, and it might get you punched, but by the rules it is legal, as an individual within 4" of a friendly warband is considered part of that Warband for targeting, visible or not.

SP

[DogOWar]

It should read "If the Leader of the Firing Unit is not between MD and MX range, then the attack fails and the firing Unit's Actions are wasted".

The location of the leader of the target unit is irrelevant, as you are no longer required to target Leader to Leader, and can target any member of the Target Unit.

SP

So, now the target model has to be within MD and MX.  Got it.  That's why I asked about the Individual being in front, thereby becoming the "target model".  So, I wan't crazy, how cool.

[Southpaw]

No, you weren't crazy. If an individual is in front, and within 4" of a friendly Warband, yes he can get Hail of Arrowed, along with the unit he is with, who will probably stay a little bit farther back next time.

Assuming they survive, of course.....

SP

[DogOWar]

If the Indv. blocks LOS, the I assume that the warband cannot be targeted?

By the literal interpretation of the rules (which is my standpoint on it), yes they can be targeted. There was a discussion on this exact subject some time ago.

If I recall correctly, the scenario was that an Individual was within 4" of a Warband, but only visible model was the individual. Can you Hail of Arrows?

Per the rules, yes you can. It's cheesy, and it might get you punched, but by the rules it is legal, as an individual within 4" of a friendly warband is considered part of that Warband for targeting, visible or not.

SP

   That is what I was trying to find out.  This was a tactic that my opponent(s) used in 1st edition games.  They would also put members of the warband in front of the leaser to stiffle the HOA as well.  Yeah, it may be cheesy, but I find that it won't stop most people from trying it.  I just figured it was put in the game this way to stop these tactics.

[troy-the-just]

i like it!  not cheesy, bowmen need the help

[DogOWar]

i like it! not cheesy, bowmen need the help

Wait til your CK/Dream warriors catch a HOA.  I do like this, and I agree, bowmen need the help.