Tanks?

[Mojarn Piett]

My impression is that some of us think of tanks and vehicles as something that would be "nice to have" not a "must have".  Others don't like tanks and have voiced their opinion very well without attacking the people with a different opinion. All opinions are just that..opinions.

@PhillySniper- Why choose to attack the people, on top of debating their opinions that you don't agree with? It's bad form.

How is it bad form to venture my opinion as other have on things they believe in?  I wasnt "attacking" the people that desire tanks. I was voicing my displeasure with the people that think that EE should stop everthing else and get "tanks" into the game. I truely feel that if you want something bad enough, do something about it. I was also stating that people dont realise the work that is required to install "new" units into a game such as UWZ. 

Specifically, you quoted MY post fully and THEN used the word "you", which considering the context (i.e. the quoted post) didn't sound like a plural.

Now let's see what I said about "EE stopping everything" so a stupid and selfish tank junkie like me could get my fix:

Let me ask: if all the worldbooks and infantry minis were out, why would it hurt to have a separate armor supplement, with vehicle rules & AT weapons?

That doesn't, at least to me, quite sound like ordering EE to "stop everything" and start hacking up some tanks.

Opinions are just that, opinions, I have mine and you have yours. My problem with the whole "tanks" situation is the people that say" EE can you do this? I just HAVE to ahve it or my gaming experience isnt  complete and BTW when is this model gonna be out I HAVE to have that too. I respect the work and time put into the game as well as the game itself. If you took that as me attacking others for their opinions, then I apologise but as others did I stated my feelings and tried to come up with a solution. Isnt that what the forum is for?? I didnt call anyone stupid or anything insulting.

Uh-huh, reading your post  your opinion seemed to be:
1) Those who want tanks in general and me in particular are ungrateful [deleted for security reasons]  who just slap EE and are never satisfied.
2) Those who want tanks in general and me in particular just want to imbalance the game and have the latest Über unit to cheese the tabletop with its presence.
3) Those who want tanks in general and me in particular are just selfish should go away and not spoil YOUR fine gaming experience with our whining.

That is what I interpret your post to mean in a nutshell. If I'm mistook you're welcome to correct me. But please watch your tone.

I felt I was stating an "opinion". House rules are there for people that want to tinker with the game and make it more to their liking.  If you want tanks in a game give us some ideas of how house rules work so others can try it but I dont think making it a permanate part of the game would make UWZ any better or worse as a system.
Again this is my opinion, which I am intitled to.


BTW how is what I did any different than what you just did GOLD by voicing your displeasure with how I phrased my opinion? Just curious

Philly

See above.

As it is obvious this subject stirs up some hot (not to mention hard) feelings I'm now going to let it drop. If you want me I'll be wallowing in my selfish and stupid tank fantasies drooling over some übertanks. 

[Mojarn Piett]

[Snip]

I promised Thom I would design a 10MM Warzone rules system....I better start writing!   

MadBrad

If you need any help let me know. 

[Catinator]

Greetings,

I have no objection against small recon vehicles and APCs. MBTs should be reserved for special scenarios... Warzone is more on the infantry skirmish side IMHO.

                Greetings,

                                     Catinator

[Steel Rabbit]

I agree with PhillySniper's notion of creating your own units. I think the main problem with post 80s TTGs is that people rely too much on 'official wording'. This could be due to the internet and most game companies being able to yeay or nay everything faster, but I think something's lost. Too many games are being streamlined for tournament play and people are forgetting that TTGs weren't invented for competitave play but instead invented to be played in some blokes garage, beer in hand, using a set of rules as guidelines.

Now, I'm not saying we should regress to the chaos that was TTGing in the 80s, but I work in a game shop and see, every day people wanting official ruling on something. If you want to use tanks in a game it would be wicked if your favorite game company would put a stamp on it for your favorite set of rules but there's nothing stopping you from buying a cheap tank set from your local hobby shop and converting it to look like something a megacorp shareholder would be proud of, and smashing your opponent with it. Just remember that if you want Gundam-esque battle suits and Tanks, don't expect to bring your brainchild unit to a tourney.

[Topkick]

Now, I'm not saying we should regress to the chaos that was TTGing in the 80s, but I work in a game shop and see, every day people wanting official ruling on something. If you want to use tanks in a game it would be wicked if your favorite game company would put a stamp on it for your favorite set of rules but there's nothing stopping you from buying a cheap tank set from your local hobby shop and converting it to look like something a megacorp shareholder would be proud of, and smashing your opponent with it. Just remember that if you want Gundam-esque battle suits and Tanks, don't expect to bring your brainchild unit to a tourney.

The only problem I foresee with people designing their own units is that too many people forget that every unit has both strengths and weaknesses. Even in a friendly game, uberstrong units cause an imbalance that results in either escalation by opponents making uber-uber units or in peolple refusing to play the guy with the uber unit and possibly leaving the game in frustration. Getting beat by someone's home rule monster is never fun, especially if it is obviously unbalanced. I've been in games with people that have done min/max armies or uber-powered homerule items and i usually just smile and walk away from the table. If they want to win that bad they can have it. That being said a balanced home rule unit or vehicle is always fun to go up against. It provides you with an opportunity to expand your ability and think outside the box tactics-wise.

[Duke Wilhelm]

House rules vs. Official rules aside...

I bought some Panzer IV F1 (short barrel) and Pz IV F2 (long barrel) 1/36 scale plastic tanks just for the display of it with my growing Bauhaus force.   I haven't painted them yet but plan too soon as this discussion has me interested in painting up more Bauhaus I have lying around and the tanks too.  Oversized tanks but they do look SHARP. 

The tanks cost all of $10 each, the turret rotates and gun moves.  And it's pre-assembled!   

Besides, I'm not a fan of Bauhaus using WWI style equipment.  They're smart enough to at least get up to WWII technology. 

I should take some pictures of them with my painted Bauhaus I guess.  Just for fun.

[PhillySniper]

As it is obvious this subject stirs up some hot (not to mention hard) feelings I'm now going to let it drop. If you want me I'll be wallowing in my selfish and stupid tank fantasies drooling over some übertanks. 

Ok for all of you that want to BASH and run. If you have a problem with something I expressed you can message me or email me and discuss your dislike of my comments. Instead you want to post it on the forum and keep the topic going. So in that spirit...

I stand by what I said earlier. I dont like the fact that people will post about percieved wrongs or deficiecies with the UWZ system. Tanks as they have been discussed dont have a place in UWZ as it stands. I dont see any of the proponents of tanks posting battle reports of the regular games but I do see them asking for more new and improved and much more badder troops. You want to attack me then fine. Maybe you dont like the way I phrased my opinion but I still am intitled to it. Maybe  the points hit a little close to home for some people but If the shoe fits wear it. I like the game as is. I also like tanks. But in all honesty if  I wanted to play a game that revolved around tanks UWZ wouldnt be the first game that came to mind. Again all im saying is why mess with a good thing? Why cant we be happy with an infantry based squad level game such as it is now? I saw a couple of scenario ideas including tanks that were great! Id even be willing to try them out for a change. I wouldnt want to have to worry about them everytime I played. Thats not what drew me to UWZ.


And for the record I never called you stupid or selfish those are your words. Before you go bashing me for the way I state something you better read other supposed well written and non attacking posts. I took offense to a few , being a non uber tank wanting just not getting it  kind of guy.

But im not going to carry this thing on forever. Design and bring your tanks give me a point total and lets do what this was intended to do, solve our differences on the field of battle. Im in the Philly area Im not hard to find for gaming

[Ruther]

you folks should grow a bigger skin 

Its just a game 

[Steel Rabbit]

The only problem I foresee with people designing their own units is that too many people forget that every unit has both strengths and weaknesses.

Very true, I just came from the assumption that ones game group where one would be trying out their house rules would be a supportive group and would work together to design a fun unit (or at least the group should be close enought that the other members can tell the cheese-monkey off when he designes the uber-unit ).

[mchiao]

There are tanks in 1st edition.  Just need updated stats...

Granted, those models are hard to come by but they are worth it.

Check'em out @ http://www.timewarpcomics.com/GAMESITE/warzone/index.htm under vehichle section.

[T Prime]

I aplaud the healthy debate on this matter. People create "house rules" all the time. You know where I stand on this but by no means does this conclude your discussion. For the record, I didn't feel bashed, at least not now.

[MartianBanshee]

I have played in a couple games with 4000+ per side and they tend to run very long.  AFVs could be worked into WZ without changing the dynamics overly dramatically.  The main change would be leaving enough open terrrain for them to maneuver, which runs contrary to my preferred cluttered battlefields.  Personally, I prefer to top out at Vulcans, Orcas, Hurricanes, Eradicators and the DL big nasties.  Mishima could possibly use a little beef-up on the Mecha and or Dragon Bike, but that starts to push them a bit away from the fluff.

Then again, a 10mm version featuring the big stuff plus some armor has an appeal all of it's own.  Maybe it's time to put together a rules drafting committee?

[PhillySniper]

PhillySniper

 Here is the problem with such blanket statements. I like tanks, I have asked about minis of the units in the books like Machinator MkII HMG specialists, Survieler, etc. I have been looking for the Expansions because they were originaly reported to be out a few months after UMZ, and I have been asking about the RPG for years. Does that sound like a power gamer? As for preceived wrongs, just wait untill you try to use things like camoflage level 1.

 I am not angry just a little disapointed that after playing this game for ten years I get labeled a power gamer. You are entitled to your opinions but once you open your mouth and spew them forth you had better be ready for someone to show you how well your feet fit in your cake hole.



 PMP Ving

 

Vingthor

Power gamer? Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was talking about the people that ask for more and more and more without touting the benefits of the game as is. If the creators had wanted MBTs they would have included them. They are trying to get all the squad pieces out so we can have all our figs for our chosen armies. As far as showing me how well my feet fit in my cakehole Im still waiting for that. All I have heard is people complaining about me voicing my opinion while doing the same thing they are accusing me of. Attacking people for their beliefs. As I said, If the show fits, wear it. If you took offensee to my statements without me mentioning your name, then maybe you need to check your own motives and actions before stepping to me. So make sure you know what you are talking about before you respond.

You can take your feet out of YOUR cakehole now!

[Coil]

PhillySniper and Vingthor I suggest you both cool down so that I do not have to lock this thread down.

/Andreas
Forum Moderator

[kwegibu]

As far as im concerned things like hurricane walkers ARE giant tanks....i mean really! all i got is a red-flyer wagon with a hmg mounted on the front and a statue of an angel sitting in the back seat inviting people to shoot at it......

I don't really mind playing the army with the least big stuff; it's never in cover and you can always shoot at it- plus big stuff tends to have low leaderships.

But hey, thats just my opinion and maybe i'd buy a size 6 if BH had it, but I don't feel empty or remorseful without it.

Personally, im not going to be home brewing any more units either. Brings back dark memories of a time when Warzone was homeless and the scary things that cropped up to try and fill the void. Infact, one of these homebrewn force books (a mishima one built in the hopes of rivaling the captiol/bahuas expansions) we dumped a bunch of wood stainer on, along with a tributery mini and some of our less favorite terrain, and lit the whole thing up in an attempt to give the whole miserable incident closure. From that point on we only played original force book units and never looked back. Instead we found crazy scenario ideas like "Wall battles" (like it implies, the whole battle took place on a wall and it was really really fun)