Flying vs. ground

[DogOWar]

     I'm a little unsure on this.  can any ground troops attack a flying model(s) in height 1?  I know models with leap can jump and attack, just not sure about everybody else.  Say you have some Demon Wings attacking Firstborn Swordsmen, is there a way the DWs can attack the FS where the FS cannot attack back.

                                                                 Thanks

[joshuaslater]

The Demon Wings can use their spears to attack from reach, with no charge bonus, if they are a height band up, or 3 inches, depending on whether you use the revised flying rules, and the swordsmen can't hit back.  If they had spears however, they may strike back.  Pays to have some models with reach on the board. 

[wmeredith]

And some missles to duckhunt with. Dang I hate those demonwings.

wmeredith.

[Wedge]

The rules clearly state that any model in HB 0 (which is on the ground) may attack any model in HB 1.  You do not need reach weapons or leap to get at them.

Reference page 68 top-left paragraph, final sentence:

Level 0 models may attack Flyers at level 1 and vice versa.

[DogOWar]

      Thanks as always Wedge , Karma to you

[joshuaslater]

The book is clear on this, but when using the revised flying rules it can be played that way.  Some of this "reach" business was going to be addressed before EE went under. 

Wedge does know the rules, and I always defer to him.  I think the rule in the book keeps flyers from being too powerful, but we've been playing with the Demon Wings being able to strike from reach, as can a ground troop attacking another troop on the ground using a spear or polearm.  They move to within 1", strike from reach with NO charge bonus, if the model survives, it may try to use its Wait counter to charge back. 

All this is coming from playing with Talamini, and should be taken with a grain of salt. 

[Wedge]

Yes, you are correct and I forgot to codify my statement with that information.  I do not play the revised rules for flyers as I feel they are too powerful.  Demon Wings are excellent fighters as they stand now... the revised flying rules only makes them even more formidable.

Having reach, brace, dive attack, excellent damage, and one of the fastest movements in the game is quite enough as it is... IMO.

[joshuaslater]

Thanks Wedge.  I know sometimes our group does things a little between the revised rules and the original book.  I don't think the rules need an overhaul, just better editing and crossreferencing.  I still break Thom's balls about his book to this day.

[DogOWar]

     So' as the rules stand now can models with reach(spears or polearms) attack medels in Hieght Band 2 and vice versa.  Got a game on Sat(18) and I have a feeling there will be flyers involved, plus its our first game in about 2 yrs(yipee!).

[Wedge]

     So' as the rules stand now can models with reach(spears or polearms) attack medels in Hieght Band 2 and vice versa.  Got a game on Sat(18) and I have a feeling there will be flyers involved, plus its our first game in about 2 yrs(yipee!).

It is my understanding with the "original rules" that to attack a model in a HB you must be in the same HB regardless of the type of weapon you are using.  For example:  How dangerous would the Soulflayer be if she could use her template weapon from HB 2 on people on the ground?

The limits of the game may not reflect reality as much as they reflect game balance.

With the advent of the "optional flying" rules I cannot say how this has been affected since I am not well versed in them.  I remember giving them a once over when they first came out and immediately noticed the game balance flaws.  Hence, I never paid them any more attention and stuck with the original rules.  You'd have to ask someone else with more knowledge on the revised rules if they think it is possible to reach into a different height band.

On a final note, I would say that any rule (house, revised, etc.) that changes the mechanics of a game needs to be scrutinized and thoroughly playtested before it is thrown into the mix.  The revised flying rules would violate game balance dramatically if flying models could attack ground units from a distance without fear of counter-attack. 

[joshuaslater]

I agree Wedge, as the more we've tested them, I don't like the balance tilt.  I think flyers should be able to be counterattacked.  Having Demon Wings attack from reach is a little cheesy, and I'm the one fielding them. 

The revised rules added plenty of fuel for debate, especially where the Soul Flayers breath weapon came in.  I think that sticking to the original rules is best, and the revised rules Thom was presenting should be for house rules where both players agree.