Author Topic: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.  (Read 24864 times)

Offline gwingfan

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2006, 03:48:19 AM »
I'd go to that con.

I like going to gaming cons.
they are fun to go to.
I might even have my figs painted by then, who knows?
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Offline Archer

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2006, 07:02:40 AM »
Shorecon was awesome back in the day.  The one year, they had Battlebots, gamer celebrities, Gwar was demoing their mini's game.  The dealler room was HUGE! Like, an entire ballroom huge! While I understand WHY Double Exposure is killing it off, and all the **** that went down that killed off Shorecon, DE should really have tried to build back those bridges, and make it a major con again, since it was pretty much the Gencon of the east coast.

Steve,

  When I run into one of the old group of organizers, I will tell them all the good feelings about those shows.

  The thing with DE is several things... of which no one really has control over.  From my observations....

1) Energy and Enthusiasm.  The Folks at Double Exposure used to have a ton of it back in the day- Any of you guys remember Dexcons 2-6?  And one of the things I have noticed is they tend to run in cycles of such.  Uber-stressing of personnell, too much on their plate, too much real life intruding.
  Vinny does like doing these events- however he is afflicted with a bit of micromanage and an unending need to run a Grand Event of a show.  Dexcon is supposed to be a Flagship show, with lots of vendors, industry types and diverse games represented.  Unfortunately, the vision of the Grand Event has taken a hit and I think he might have lost his way a bit.

  And like most visionary types, does not like dissent against visions as to how it should work nor does he listen to many other bits of advice outside a select few.  Which is sad.  He really is a very nice guy and really frickin' smart... just a touch blind to the reasons things are failing.

2) Emphasis on LARP.  DE started out as a LARP group and expanded their efforts into standard gaming conventions.  And for a long time, they rocked at it.  Unfortunately, the emphasis on all facets seems to have lessened in favor of the LARP adherents.  Don't get me wrong- LARPing can be and is alotta fun (hell- I happen to play a Tremere Vampire in One World By Night's World of Darkness www.owbn.org) but it is not the be-all/end-all of convention attendance.

  I've been of the opinon at one point that Mini's were the way to go- lost that opinion years ago as I got to understand more of how the entire process of convention construction was done (though the old Warfaires I ran seemed to do ok).  Diversity is key in a local event, with emphasis placed on specific areas as you grow and the numbers support such emphasis.
  Right now (and for the last few shows), LARP Lobbyists in the staff are holding the power/influence and that is not likely to change, unless something occurs to force that to do so.

  And I don't see it.

3) Crony-ism.  The other problem DE is experiencing right now is cronyism.  With the LARP faction having the most influence and the history of the group being what it is, a number of folks in the DE-created and own LARP have favored status with some of the bigger fish in the company hierarchy.  And that is not going to change.   The Avatar system (their LARP rules), while fun, is floundering.  From what I have heard/been told, its recent revision helped some but the problem of cronyism and a handful of folks holding all the power/influence is holding the system/company down for the whipping that reality is giving it.

  If there is one thing I learned from what happened to my old man with his fire-protection business- its business should be kept seperate of friendships and dissenting opipnins heard. and not stifled/driven away  It *HAS* to be that way...  DE is a business run by a group of friends... and the head of it needs to see what is happening to his orginization before it self-destructs.

  Again.

  This might seem like sour grapes... and maybe it is a little.  But it is my opinion, which is something I am allowed to have.  I sincerely wish Vinny and Double Exposure well hope they can overcome the self-inflicted wounds... but unless things drasticly change and some coffe gets smelled in a hurry, it won't be around in a year./18 months.  And that clock began ticking not that long ago.

  My few cents on the matter.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 07:06:01 AM by Archer »
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Offline Jibbajabbawocky

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2006, 07:12:25 AM »
3) Crony-ism.  The other problem DE is experiencing right now is cronyism.  With the LARP faction having the most influence and the history of the group being what it is, a number of folks in the DE-created and own LARP have favored status with some of the bigger fish in the company hierarchy.  And that is not going to change.   The Avatar system (their LARP rules), while fun, is floundering.  From what I have heard/been told, its recent revision helped some but the problem of cronyism and a handful of folks holding all the power/influence is holding the system/company down for the whipping that reality is giving it.

  If there is one thing I learned from what happened to my old man with his fire-protection business- its business should be kept seperate of friendships and dissenting opipnins heard. and not stifled/driven away  It *HAS* to be that way...  DE is a business run by a group of friends... and the head of it needs to see what is happening to his orginization before it self-destructs.

  Again.

  This might seem like sour grapes... and maybe it is a little.  But it is my opinion, which is something I am allowed to have.  I sincerely wish Vinny and Double Exposure well hope they can overcome the self-inflicted wounds... but unless things drasticly change and some coffe gets smelled in a hurry, it won't be around in a year./18 months.  And that clock began ticking not that long ago.

  My few cents on the matter.

You can say that again.  The reason I, and several others quit Avatar stuff was that the same group of people were the center of attention ALL the time.  It came to the point where I had to decide if it was worth 30 bucks, plus hotel, to just sit around while a handful of people got all the important plot bits.  It's gotten a little better recently, and I'm willing to give it another go, but I don't have high hopes.

Really though, in 2000, shorecon had a firckin' Battlebots tourny! Battlebots!! like, the real deal!

It's sad that it fell so low and had to die out on such a low note.
(Although the Chronopia tourney ROCKED!)

It makes me sad that Wild Gazebo went under too.
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Offline masherking

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2006, 07:57:56 AM »
Wild Gazebo:
I had really hoped they stayed with the one day con concept they started with.
the day was pack with all kind of games to play the event was cheap as hell and it was loads of fun.
My friends and I loved it.

Sadly it seems the local gaming community doesnt have enough steam for the 3 day con's any more.

as for Crony-ism and larps...sadly they go hand in hand. I've been in many a larp and I see it all the time.
This and some really bad rules judges have killed more then well started larp before its time. It has just driven me more into the open arms of miniature god "PEWTER".


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Offline Archer

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2006, 06:03:58 AM »
Wild Gazebo:
I had really hoped they stayed with the one day con concept they started with.
the day was pack with all kind of games to play the event was cheap as hell and it was loads of fun.
My friends and I loved it.

Sadly it seems the local gaming community doesnt have enough steam for the 3 day con's any more.

as for Crony-ism and larps...sadly they go hand in hand. I've been in many a larp and I see it all the time.
This and some really bad rules judges have killed more then well started larp before its time. It has just driven me more into the open arms of miniature god "PEWTER".

WG went under due to mismanagement and the fact that their hatred of all things DE could not sustain them.  IIRC, their LARP rules were a rip of the DE system (to some degree) and some of the bile they spewed was a bit rediculous in private.  Even I "earned" some, despite my being  supportive of their efforts and neutral in the disagreement the two orgs had- it predated me and I wanted nothing to do with it.

  Go figure.
John "Archer" Tinney

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Offline Veez

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2006, 01:33:47 PM »
This and some really bad rules judges have killed more then well started larp before its time. It has just driven me more into the open arms of miniature god "PEWTER".

PEWTER is your friend.  Pewter never judges you.  Pewter never complains that your costume is period enough.  Pewter just sits there and loves you in its own quiet way.
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Offline gwingfan

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2006, 04:35:54 AM »
All hail PEWTER!
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Offline Jibbajabbawocky

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2006, 05:07:27 AM »
Pewter never tells you about how their boffer style is based of "Real Secret Ninja Skills"

Pewter never metagames.

Pewter never asks you to play "Rock Paper Scissors"

Pewter never makes a 16th level Ranger/Fighter/Monk/Assassin/Pirate to destroy your character.



Pewter never tries to sell you a new edition of it's game every 2 years...

... oh wait...
*eyes GW*
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Offline masherking

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2006, 05:15:35 AM »
Pewter never tells you about how their boffer style is based of "Real Secret Ninja Skills"

Pewter never metagames.

Pewter never asks you to play "Rock Paper Scissors"

Pewter never makes a 16th level Ranger/Fighter/Monk/Assassin/Pirate to destroy your character.



Pewter never tries to sell you a new edition of it's game every 2 years...

... oh wait...
*eyes GW*

This is scary
I have experienced all this
including  boffer style is based off "Real Secret Ninja Skills"
thank goodness PEWTER has come into my life....start drawing jack Chick style comic strips about the God PEWTER  :P
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Offline Jibbajabbawocky

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2006, 05:18:03 AM »
I think the best was:


"A Florentine style fighter with a rapier and a dagger could EASILY kill a bunch of roman legionaires."


Which was said to two fellows with degrees in History.
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Offline Veez

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2006, 05:21:54 AM »
Good thing noone was standing around this guy playing live action Star Trek:

"Captain our scanners are reading an negative space where a life should be."

VeezCon products:  Not as good as if they had been actually produced by a real figure company, but better than using your shoe to proxy with...sort of!

Offline masherking

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2006, 05:50:32 AM »
Good thing noone was standing around this guy playing live action Star Trek:

"Captain our scanners are reading an negative space where a life should be."



LOL

man its like that sometimes with some folks
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Offline Jibbajabbawocky

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2006, 05:55:27 AM »
It's almost as if he thought all combat was like D20 combat.  Everyone goes in their turn, and if I reduce you to 0hp, you'r dead.  Instead of ****ed off and wielding a fancy meat cleaver.
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Offline BikerBaneDave

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2006, 06:55:02 AM »
I think Double Exposure continues to experience what the rest of the gaming industry is expriencing - a shrinking market.

As the players grow older and spend more time and money on other things, there are fewer and fewer new gamers to take the place of the older ones.  I know I am one of them - married, kids, no time or money now to play.   Without a sustainable market of new players, buying the games and attending the conventions, the cons will continue to shrink until companies like DE can no longer justify the expense to run conventions.

I don't have a solution unfortunately, other than the illegal drugs type - give it free, get em hooked, get their friends hooked so they aren't alone, then charge them all when they get addicted.  Sounds terrible, however the choices of entertainment for the younger generations today makes RPGs and Miniature games something that requires effort.  Conventions are the same wy - you have to pay $30, plus hotel room, and drive out there versus booting up the computer and blasting away digital images.

I'm not sure how the gaming convention companies change the perception of fun / lack of fun to attract players again, without relying on older gamers getting their kids involved.

I recall ShoreCon when it was actually at the shore as being loads of fun.  After a while, gaming conventions were more a social gathering for me to see people I only saw once or twice a year.  Gotta get back to the fun and wonder and anticipation that drove us all to look forward to the conventions.
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Offline joshuaslater

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Re: Southern Exposure--down the toilet.
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2006, 10:14:16 AM »
Well spoke.  We're archaic now.  I'm going to see if my thirteen year old nephew can get into Chronopia, but I don't see young players joining the ranks with all the other options out there. 
May the Dark Lords of Lead-Free Pewter smile kindly upon you.

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