Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Talaminiatures => Announcements => Topic started by: Gubs on February 16, 2006, 11:19:32 AM
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Contacted Paradox to confirm my info (apparently a couple other people have also) and Chronopia is currently unlicensed. Negotiations will begin between Paradox and interested parties beginning on February 27.
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Paradox has decided not to renew the license.
Thom is unable to comment due to issues of a personal nature. I have received information that he has pledged to keep these forums running here until they can find a new home.
If the forum has to move it will be announced here as well as on other miniatures related sites.
/Andreas
Forum Moderator
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Andreas, do you mean renew to EE, or renew at all?
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unfortunatly, they've declined to renew the liscense with EE at the time and they have potentially found a new product marketeer.
at the moment, we're still runnin on limited information. please be patient we'll share with you as we can.
-PFC joe
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This is what I got from Paradox:
There is presently no licensee for Chronopia, although we are in discussions with a couple of interested companies. If your company is interested, please send your ideas as to what you would like to do with the license to our Licensing Manager Leigh Stone, leigh.stone@paradox-entertainment.com. She is out of the office and unable to reply until the week starting Feb 27.
Regards,
Joakim Zetterberg
Communications/Investor Relations
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It seems there are two discussions going on this same topic, maybe we can get a mod to close one of them so we're all on the same page or maybe we can all agree to just post in one or the other?
I'm unclear, I know that both the Chronopia and Warzone properties are produced under license from Paradox, and I've heard rumors that both licences were set to expire this month. The replies from paradox posted here by bot Matt and Josh indicate that the decision has been made not to renew Excelsiors license to produce Chronopia, has there been any official comment from either Paradox or Excelsior on the Warzone license?
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It seems there are two discussions going on this same topic, maybe we can get a mod to close one of them so we're all on the same page or maybe we can all agree to just post in one or the other?
This is a very good idea. I second this notion.
As far as info goes GSB, you know about as much as any of us. I'm sure that as info becomes known it will be made available. Nothing good can come from keeping such secrets. We are all fans of the games and we are all waiting on the edge of our seats. Let's just remain positive and hope for the best.
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Sorry I didn't ask about Warzone. I agree, we really should pool all this into one thread; by the time we do, hopefully there'll be some announcement anyway.
I'm more on the edge of my seat about Thom's health. I'm hoping whatever he's fightin' gets licked. The license is the least of our worries. This community will survive; we've been keeping these games alive, and we're going to maintain discipline in the face of confusion.
The gamers on this forum, both Chronopia and Warzone are definitely a breed apart, with an esprit de corps unmatched. -- And that's powerful stuff.
Cheers.
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It seems there are two discussions going on this same topic, maybe we can get a mod to close one of them so we're all on the same page or maybe we can all agree to just post in one or the other?
Ask and ye shall receive. The other thread has been closed.
I'm unclear, I know that both the Chronopia and Warzone properties are produced under license from Paradox, and I've heard rumors that both licences were set to expire this month. The replies from paradox posted here by bot Matt and Josh indicate that the decision has been made not to renew Excelsiors license to produce Chronopia, has there been any official comment from either Paradox or Excelsior on the Warzone license?
I and I guess several other people have sent questions to Paradox about that. As soon as we have an answer it will be posted here.
There is no need for even more people to bug Paradox so let's wait a bit, alright?
/Andreas
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hmm not good, but i didnt surprise :(
I hope, Thom presented the rules for the new units and his special rules from the cerulean mists (por example Brazier rules/Charnel Golem stats)
Coki
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The licenses expired at the end of 2005.
Unfortunately EE did not see fit to tell anyone and continued accepting new greens from myself and at least two others since then, not paying any of us. That's always fun.
Chronopia is not a major license for Paradox. It's not even listed on their site (MC is). I don't think they'd bother to make an announcement. They probably would if MC got picked up though.
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I don't want to any cost defend Thom, but I think he had many problems and a serious justify for this. He has three my miniature (Ascended, Thorn of Lotus and Lotus guard), I cannot understand why he don't cast. Like Gubs, I don't see any money, but after this, sorry for all his problems
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Well as this licensing issue is news to both of you it is also news to Excelsior. Though Excelsior likely new the license was to be re-evaluated they had to act under the assumption that it would be renewed, to do otherwise would compromise their ongoing business. If they instructed sculpters to stop in preparation for the license review and then recieved a renewed license they would have no new products currently in development, which would further impact their ability to operate.
Gubs and Cazo, I don't know the particulars of your agreements to sculpt for EE, so can't comment on the specifics but if you haven't recieved compensation I would imagine you still have rights to your creation, in which case you could try to find another buyer for the sculpt. However without knowing the specifics of your agreements I can't say this for certain.
This is news to everyone and the best thing we can all do is wait for more information to come through official channels, and hope for the best for EE and both the Warzone and Chronopia properties.
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Agreements? I haven't any agreement in my hand, only Thom words and his integrity. My sculpt was send about a year ago. I don't understand why it isn't cast, if don't like it he can symple send back.
In any case, I think it is very diffucult now for Excelsior. As write Gubs, Paradox don't want renew license.
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Hello Everyone.
I found out about this thread around five o'clock. Sorry that I couldn't respond until now.
First, best of luck overcoming your ailment Thom. Knowing what you're going through helps answer some questions and eases some frustrations that I have had about EE and the status of my most recent order. I don't know all of the details, however; I know enough. I hope things get better for you soon. Regardless, my prayers are with you. May God Bless You and Keep You.
Second. As I have a business background, I may have some insight as to the status of the sculpts that seems to be creating and driving this thread. I also, many years ago, submitted a literary work, for publication and through that process learn about an artist status as it pertains to a work and ownership there of. What it comes down to is this, if the work was submitted by an employee of a company, the work is owned by the company. If the work was submitted by a free lance artist, then ownership is retained by the artist until which time the artist agrees to sell it and receives compensation. Judging by the posts from the sculptors, it appears that the work is of a free lance nature. Hope this helps.
Third, rather than debating this issue, in light of the present situation, let's rally around Thom and see if we can help him get through his sufferings. There will be a better time to work out licensing and sculpting issues.
In spite of this recent crisis, I still hope to see everyone in Columbus.
See Ya'll Later.
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Origins is still in the works and I hope to be in touch with Thom soon. Currently there are several Warzone and several Chronopia events that are being scheduled. I will also be running some LoS events and my Legions of Steel/Warzone scenario. These are being hosted by the Midwest Crusaders. Our motto is "We are on a mission from Thom" .
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I am not sure of the details of this situation, but I just want to say that my prayers are with you Thom. I pray that you overcome whatever is happening and want you to know that your friends here in Louisville are there for you. Let us know if there is anything we can do.
Hang in there brother,
Scott
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I completely agree, Josh. Good Karma for you.
SP
Sorry I didn't ask about Warzone. I agree, we really should pool all this into one thread; by the time we do, hopefully there'll be some announcement anyway.
I'm more on the edge of my seat about Thom's health. I'm hoping whatever he's fightin' gets licked. The license is the least of our worries. This community will survive; we've been keeping these games alive, and we're going to maintain discipline in the face of confusion.
The gamers on this forum, both Chronopia and Warzone are definitely a breed apart, with an esprit de corps unmatched. -- And that's powerful stuff.
Cheers.
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I hadn't heard Thom was ill until reading through this topic. I hope he is ok. Anyone visiting or talking to him, please pass along my best wishes for a speedy recovery. Thanks, Mike L.
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Greetings,
I hope Thom gets well soon. I`ve only heard he has serious troubles of personal nature but there were no details about it. My best wishes to him.
Well, we have to wait how the licence issue will solve itself but I hope it turns out to be good. For Chronopia they have many things in work in progress that may help with getting the licence back.
For Warzone I`m not really sure.
For the sculptors - I really wish your greens will be realased and you`ll get the money as well. There are too many nice minis...
We`ll see.
Greetings,
Catinator
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I just hope they keep this rule set, since Tom and co. did an awesome job with it.
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I just hope they keep this rule set, since Tom and co. did an awesome job with it.
Ditto
People can say what they want about the rulebook or the big FAQ but at the end of the day it still one of the best mini rules for sale on the market today.
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That's why we're all playing these games--fabulous rules set, great settings--whatever goes down we can appreciate all the work that Thom put into collating TWO games into these versions.
I'm only familiar with Chronopia; I have all of the old books, and looking at all the information and mechanics that were put into one balanced book is incredible. The 2nd edition of Chronopia may not have had the gloss and shine of the Ultimate Warzone book, but A LOT of work went into this endeavor. It would be shame to see it disappear completely.
If any other party picks up the license for these games and doesn't understand that the core mechanics are what make them so good, then they really don't know what they've got. We'll see what happens.
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I really enjoy Chronopia and Warzone and it's disheartening to see Thom and company to go through all these hardships. Hope everything will turn out well in the end.
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I really enjoy Chronopia and Warzone and it's disheartening to see Thom and company to go through all these hardships. Hope everything will turn out well in the end.
I totally agree and I wonder if the problem they are having is anything to do with the movie being made, pretty much like the LOTR movie when the franchise for the figures was given to GW and taken from Black Tree (I think), lets hope that this is not the reason for this delay.
As its a bad day when a good company suffers for putting out a good product and won't get the benefit from all the hard work to get the systems up and running again, against all the odds as well with all the bad feeling against the Target closure which rubbed off on these products even though they are both great settings and now both rulesets are well re-written and fun to play. This might all change because one company thinks they can make a few more bucks rather than the Continueing health and passion that the current flag bearers have for the games. A quick buck rather than a healthy product line.
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Sort of a tretching of the facts a little, isn't it.
Thanks,
John
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How do you mean? There is a Mutant Chronicles movie in the works, and it only adds to the stew so to speak. Care to elaborate?
Editing: It's curious to see blacktreedesign.com --- how they still sell the LOTR figs under different names. Curious that.
Cheers.
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The more I think about this Paradox is looking for a larger company to push product after the movie. I fear that Thom and EE is a victim of bad timing with regards to renewing the licence for WZ. There still may be a chance for Chronopia though.
I agree with Semai99, I hope that quality is not sacraficed for quantity. >:( :(
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This is SAD,we waited so long from Targets crash & burn to get these games back
up and through all those painful excuses & delays.
EE obviously put blood & sweat into this but for whatever reasons couldn't get
it together .Maybe a stronger company can make this work but my heart goes
out to Thom & EE sometimes the best efforts just come up short.
In any case we're still playing our hybrid 1st & 2nd ed.games
OD
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What I mean is that EE did inherit baggage from Target. However, they certainly added to that load on their own. The total lack of new sculpts, ongoing production issues and a whole list of other things has likely been a part of Paradox's decision. The Warzone game doesn't hold much of a place in the market and no amount of love or goodwill on the part of EE can improve that without having the resources and know how to get it done. That IS what may be of concern to Paradox. I won't comment on the editing issues in the WZ rulebook. They are pretty well known. I simply mean you are tossing out feel good hyperbole that simply doesn't match the facts at hand. I love the Warzone Universe. I simply became convinced a while ago that EE wasn't going to take WZ back to where it should be in the marketplace. It may be resources, bad luck, personal issues or a host of other things. It simply didn't happen and looked unlikely ever to. That's my point.
YMMV.
I do wish Thom the best for his health issues. I recently had my Father and Grandmother pass away in a 4 month period. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Thanks,
John
I really enjoy Chronopia and Warzone and it's disheartening to see Thom and company to go through all these hardships. Hope everything will turn out well in the end.
I totally agree and I wonder if the problem they are having is anything to do with the movie being made, pretty much like the LOTR movie when the franchise for the figures was given to GW and taken from Black Tree (I think), lets hope that this is not the reason for this delay.
As its a bad day when a good company suffers for putting out a good product and won't get the benefit from all the hard work to get the systems up and running again, against all the odds as well with all the bad feeling against the Target closure which rubbed off on these products even though they are both great settings and now both rulesets are well re-written and fun to play. This might all change because one company thinks they can make a few more bucks rather than the Continueing health and passion that the current flag bearers have for the games. A quick buck rather than a healthy product line.
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Update!
I have been in contact with Fredrik Malmberg at Paradox to confirm the information regarding Warzone. Fredrik confirms that they have canceled the license for both Warzone and Chronopia. He also writes that they have a plan for both games and that it will be made public shortly.
/Andreas
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It's quite sad that this has happened, hopefully they will quickly sort this out so the games can progress and people won't consider them dead again.
Lets hope they quickly post some sort of statement on the forum & places like 'The Miniatures Page (TMP)' that I know quite lot of us use regularly, so to keep the games running.
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Thanks for the update Andreas.
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Thanks for the update Coil.
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Thanks for the info, Coil.
Hang in there, Thom and Co. I know this is hard on everybody, but let's keep Thom in our thoughts during all this. He's one of the good guys and this is a hard road for anyone to walk, especially when weathering personal issues.
For what it's worth, let's let Thom focus on those personal issues first. While we all may be passionate about our games, this is not as important than taking care of what truly matters. The Miniatures Page can wait. The press releases can wait. There is no urgency here. If Paradox has made a decision, it's up to them to announce any changes, not EE. They are the IP holder and they apparently stated Feb 27th, so let's let them make that call.
Until then, let's leave EE be with these kinds of questions/demands. If were ever a fan, thank them for their time. If you never were, go elsewhere. There are many places on the net where you can vent and complain. Right now, this should be a place to support EE during these rough times.
Thanks, Thom for the opportunities. If you need me and the Louisville gang, you need but ask.
Mark M.
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Hey,
This is Kevin. Would someone in the know drop me a line, I've been trying to get in touch with excelsior for the past month or so. cheers.
kevin
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Hey,
This is Kevin. Would someone in the know drop me a line, I've been trying to get in touch with excelsior for the past month or so. cheers.
kevin
Just send email to Jon. I got his answer today - he has vacation.
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Hey,
This is Kevin. Would someone in the know drop me a line, I've been trying to get in touch with excelsior for the past month or so. cheers.
kevin
My contact info is in my profile, Kevin
Get that and combine it with the White Pages.
Alternatively, use this: 4844940351
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I wish Thom all the best, and for a safe, complete, and speedy recovery from whatever is ailing him.
I also wish WZ/Chronopia all the best in whatever home they end up in. It will be very interesting to see where they end up.
Mort
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I wish Thom all the best, and for a safe, complete, and speedy recovery from whatever is ailing him.
I also wish WZ/Chronopia all the best in whatever home they end up in. It will be very interesting to see where they end up.
Mort
Tim -
You prolly had better reason than most others to hold a grudge or gloat. Thanks for being a class act. I hope more people give you the karma you deserve.
Hal
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It's been a while since i've looked at Paradox's website. Could somebody please post the link for paradox website.
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try http://www.paradoxplaza.com/
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Almost ;)
http://www.paradox-entertainment.com/
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I idly wonder of WZ is cursed. It does have a bad habit of going down the tubes when everything seems to be progressing fairly well.
It is ironic that people who have the means but now the will have sat on this game and the rug is pulled from those who have the will but not the meand due to being overcome by events.
If there is any justice in this, EE's work (and hopefully workers) will be incorporated into whomever takes over.
Is there any plan to release the work you have done for the Mars, Venus, DE and other supplements in a PDF format or something or is that one of those "stand by to see what happens" type situaitons?
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I wouldn't count on it, without heavy revision those books are directly tied to the Mutant Chronicles License, and without a license to distribute materials pertaining to the Mutant Chronicles Intellectual property would be a violation of Intellectual property laws.
The writing done for those books, and anything else created, if done by excelsior employees or purchased by Excelsior from freelance creators remains the property of Excelsior entertainment, however without a license to distribute such products the best a company could hope for is that the new licensee will be interested in purchasing what was in development (likely at a significant discount)
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With Thom out sick and both pots out, it might not be so bad for Warzone/Chronopia to go back to their 'parent'. God knows what will happen to them but I doubt it will get any worse. I'm pretty sure Warzone will probably survive but not so sure about Chronopia. After all, there is going to be a movie based on MC (Warzone) in the future. Now, whether that movie will hit the theater or not... Only time will tell.
Store like www.thewarstore.com already pull Warzone/Chronopia off their web page. I still have figs that I need in order to complete my armies...
SIGH...
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I've gone to ebay to try to finish out my elves. I know the feeling.
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It does raise the uncomforatble question of what is left in stock at headquarters.
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It does raise the uncomforatble question of what is left in stock at headquarters.
I am still waiting to hear from John as to whether they can sell their existing stock. My guess is that they can't sell anything after the 1/31 expiration of the liscense. :'(
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i wonder if there will be a "warzone 4th edition" or if they'll keep the current rules... they haven't been out that much.
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My guess is it probably will be inactive for a year or two. Hiring new people to study the rules and come up with something that is for the mass will definitely take time. It is not uncommon for the 'new' company to say there will be a 'new' version and there will be some limited support (which means no support) for existing products. I think the best way to tell is to see if there will be any Warzone/Chronopia presence in Gen Con. Then again, it is nothing new for those of us who are here.
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Store like www.thewarstore.com already pull Warzone/Chronopia off their web page. I still have figs that I need in order to complete my armies...
SIGH...
I had an active order in there since Dec. 1st. That poor guy was racking his brain trying to get the stuff for me.
That would have given me all the Bauhaus I needed. Oh Well.
The thing about it is, thewarstore.com only just found out as well. At least thats what they said in the email.
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I am so glad that I finished my Chronopia collection several months ago.
I have over 2,000 points of every army in the game. My Firstborn, Elf, Blackblood, and
Devout armies are beyond 4,000 points.
I would suggest anyone that is really interested in Chronopia to acquire the figures
as soon as you can.
My sense is, they will soon become very, very rare. They are already sparse on Ebay.
Chronopia; Truly fantasy gaming's best kept secret. A rare gem, perfect in it's implementation,
flawless in it's play. A game easy to learn, yet one I am still trying to master after years of play.
A game that is sadly.....cursed and destined to fade into the wind.
It will be true Chronopia fanatics, folks like me and other's on this board that will keep the game alive.
I will always have my Chronopia collection, and will always view it as the best fantasy wargame ever published.
Even years down the road, I will turn to Chronopia as my favorite game.
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Agree, totaly, with Firstborn, and I want add: "The best fantasy background".
Unfortunaly, Chronopia is the same of 10 years ago, other games (like Confrontation) are too evolute (in immage and in miniture), so Chronopia can't mach with this market mosters.
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Man... and I never bought those new Devout Archers I wanted...
If I place an order for them, will they be filled out of existing stock? There are about three things I want to order, but I'm leery about sending money if the company is defunct.
-Alex
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Man... and I never bought those new Devout Archers I wanted...
-Alex
I did...mwahahaahahaahaaaaa
8)
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I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand Excelsior did his best to revive Chronopia. On the second Excelsiors Chronopia is much defferent than Targets Chronopia (Ex changed a bit of fluff but most of this changes was bad for my and in second edition it is not the same game I have decided to play years ago).
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Since the other thread is closed, and this is the closest thing to it, I thought I should mention that I did just receive payment for the tunnel fighters. I was pleasantly surprised as I had written them off and had been attempting to get them returned.
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I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand Excelsior did his best to revive Chronopia. On the second Excelsiors Chronopia is much defferent than Targets Chronopia (Ex changed a bit of fluff but most of this changes was bad for my and in second edition it is not the same game I have decided to play years ago).
Just wondering what is not working for you. I really dont see much difference between those 2 version, IMHO.
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Just wondering what is not working for you. I really dont see much difference between those 2 version, IMHO.
Some fluff changes examples:
Dream Warriors
was: normal soldiers whith armors infused by blue lotus
is: The truth of matter, a truth known only to the Inner Circle of the Elven Crystal Lotus Eaters and Duke Zazen, is that the Dream Warriors actually do not exist. They are the mental manifestations of a select group of elder Lotus Eaters whose ancient bodies have left them incapable of almost all movement yet whose lotus-laced minds are brimming with clarity and power.
Caravan Guard
was: normal soldiers trained to fight on the desert that protect caravans
is: Tabukhar personal guard
Minis look.
Swamp goblin heavy spearmen have extra armor on old pics, but their minies don't. They have different helmets, and are just more D&D style, and less old Chronopia style than light spearmens.
In S.G. army I would prabobly have sth. to say about novice shaman, but I cant see anything on his picture in store.
New things:
Cerulean horde - more ancient, more scary... i don't see any new fresh ideas bleeah
Elithrion - he fits better to devout look and devout mentality.
Exemplar - I found firstborn army more like soviet army (Judges works like NKWD) not like US army ("Il show you guys how to do it" - exemplar) btw. they have allready their leaders - repulsar knights.
Dwarves drillers or miners (I have forgot their exact name) - lets take field workers to army it will be great :P
Cannons for everyone (gourd canons, warp things, etc.)
Embraced - weak horned primitives
spiders - S.G. had hittin bugs, and all of them mounted. Goblin armiy was made from goblins, and their mounts, not from zoo.
My brother told me that I shouldn't post my previous post. Prabobly most of you (or even all of you) don't agree, but I its mine opinion.
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The only reason why I got into Chronopia is because of the story. It was good. Since then, I sort of stopped paying attention to the fluff nor the story line. After all, the game itself is interesting and well thought out in its own right.
Even after 10 years, the game is still fun to play. Like many classics, such as Chess and Monoploy, it probably will stay with most of us for a long long time.
I still like the original/1st edition books. Colorful and fun to read.
Seriously, besides the fluff, is there any rule changes that made the game unpalatable?
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My brother told me that I shouldn't post my previous post. Prabobly most of you (or even all of you) don't agree, but I its mine opinion.
I don't agree with you, but I like it that it doesn't matter to you what we will say...it's right to have an opinion and to stand by it...
Feel applauded!
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For the most part EE did very well some of the fluff changes were a bit inessisary but hey they had creative control and it wasnt that bad. I just want the game to go on and would like to see EE continue and get it going. They had some serious promise with CM and the minis coming in (more than we knew) but they do have there problems like not being able to get stuff out. But I think if they lose the rights I hope whoever picks it up will able to carry on.
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Well, the lady handling the license for Paradox enters the office today. It may take a while for them to sort out what's going to happen. It took EE a while to even get a crack at it after the Target collapse, so we could be in for a long wait. We'll see what happens. Cheers.
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Speaking of Target...
I wonder if there is ever going to be a documentary similar to "Enron: The Smartest Guys in The Room"?
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Complete with them running I-Kore into the ground as well. Hm.
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We all had great hopes for Warzone and Chronopia, it appears that it was not to be with Excelsior. Excelsior does have other lines that it is marketting so they may pull through this. I hope Thom gets well soon.
PMP Ving
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I just want to know if the outstanding orders are going to be filled, I would like to have the stuff i ordered and paid for. As there is no way to talk to anybody from EE, I gusse I will just have to wait and see.
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Luckily, I just picked up another 400 or so warzone figs on Ebay (mainly madzerker's stuff). So, I pretty much have every faction and force that i could want for Warzone.
Thanks,
John
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So it was you I was bidding against. sorry about that but you understand how it is.
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At the rate those ebay auctions go, every Chronopia or Warzone model ever produced will be owned by about 12 people, each with thousands of figures.
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At the rate those ebay auctions go, every Chronopia or Warzone model ever produced will be owned by about 12 people, each with thousands of figures.
Smiles and pets his 100's of SoK and Gobbos gotten of Ebay. ;D
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Dopnt forget the hundreds of Firstborn bro. Thats where its at baby. I was so lookin forward to the Firstborn stuff from CM.
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I did lose one auction IIRC. Computer locked up at the last minute. ;) Between what I won from him and have picked up over the last 3-4 years I probably bought the retail value of around 5-6000 dollars or more worth of stuff. Most recently I aquired a pretty large Mishima army. Always wanted one. Decided now was the time to get some.
Thanks,
John
So it was you I was bidding against. sorry about that but you understand how it is.
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Most recently I aquired a pretty large Mishima army. Always wanted one. Decided now was the time to get some.
Thanks,
John
So it was you I was bidding against. sorry about that but you understand how it is.
So, that was you who won the sizeable Mishima recently.
Now, you wouldn't happen to live on the east coast?
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I really would like to get more Hunting spiders, heayy spearmen with the new musican and the standard and a couple of novice shamans.
I hope there is somehow a chance to get some of the remaining stock as not much of the new stuff will make it to ebay i fear.
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I would like to know if there is still stock, I need bout the same.
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Unfortunately without a license to distribute Mutant Chronicles or Chronopia related products Excelsior would be committing a crime were they to sell even their current inventory. At least in general, without knowing the specifics of the licensing agreement between Excelsior and Paradox, I can't comment on this particular case.
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I asked about it and they said they would be putting out information shortly.
Stand by to stand by.
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Jumping on this one a little late due to the fact that I haven't been around for awhile.
It surprises me greatly that Paradox decided to cancel on the renewal. Everything we talk about now is guesswork until EE makes a formal statement about it. My guess goes along with what some other people have stated, EE is a little too small. I don't mean it as bad-mouthing, Paradox's point-of-view comes into shift here also. For us, EE was a small company, plagued by being short-handed but still managed to get orders out and managed to make an appearance at conventions and come out with new figures and rules. For Paradox, if the movie's a hit and the game becomes an even bigger hit, who knows if they'd be able to handle the load.
For the people who still have orders that weren't filled, I'm fairly certain you won't have to bite the bullet. Maybe Paradox will allow EE a temp reprieve to finish out what orders it had, wouldn't look to good for the parent company to forget about their customers.
M
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maybe people with orders in to EE should drop an email to Paradox letting them know that long-time fans of the property have orders that can't be filled.
heck, maybe people that don't have orders in, but want to make one (and would have made one if there had been a heads-up about this) should send one too.
And I mean really politely worded emails, NOT rude or bossy sounding ones !!!!!!!
I wanted to place an order, but was waiting for word that the casting equipment had been repaired/replaced.
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Two very good pieces of advice here:
I asked about it and they said they would be putting out information shortly.
Stand by to stand by.
And I mean really politely worded emails, NOT rude or bossy sounding ones !!!!!!!
Preach on Brother Jim! There's nothing to be gained from being rude to Paradox (or almost anyone else as well).
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I live near Cincinnati, OH. More Midwest.
Thanks,
John
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I live near Cincinnati, OH. More Midwest.
Thanks,
John
I like Cincinnati. I was out there once for a business trip. Very clean and quiet. 8)
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If they arent allowed to sell the productts then they should close the store so people arent ordering and getting sour about not being able to get the stuff they pay for thats just not right to keep our hopes up of getting stuff, and then we wouldnt be lookin in the mail for weeks wondering where your stuff is at.
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I concur. At least a notice that things are up in the air, or ending, with appropriate refunds or sales.
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Well, I haven't been on the forums much for the past year.
Why is anyone honestly suprised EE might not get a renewal? Objectively speaking, they've been poor with releasing material, with gaps in the core Chronopia book and a CM expansion that's been promised but unseen for over three years. I have no idea what Warzone's status is as I wasn't ever a fan or player of that one, but I doubt it got much more support than Chronopia.
So to Paradox, they're in a problem spot. With the emergence of Reaper's Warlord game, Confrontation/Ragnarok, and Privateer Press' Warmachine and now Hordes, the market is broadening and GW isn't the huge mammoth that holds all the players. With how...again honestly speaking...Excelsior has failed to generate any interest in the games or expand them at all, they may or may not want to allow Chronopia and Warzone to continue. Let's not forget these games already bombed once before at Target's hands, and when a game is ditched once it's hard to get people interested again.
So if you're Paradox, you can either can it for good, or try to get a company that will support the games better. I doubt any serious companies are looking at Warzone and Chronopia though.
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I see your points dag. Paradox might can the whole table top thing for Chronopia. They may do the same for Warzone, but the movie coming out could influence their decision. Maybe they just want to go for plastic toys for the kids, and leave the lead-free pewter behind. It's a dog eat dog market out there with all the games you've mentioned. I'm sure there are interested parties hoping to acquire the license for these great intellectual properties however, and a small company with some talented sculptors in house, could do something for these games, or just use the background and create new rules sets. The track record for these games would scare most anybody off; we'll see what happens.
I'm holding on to all of my models; no sense in giving up on a great game that still gives me enjoyment.
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Hi. Just to make things a little more clearer. Neither chronopia or Warzone BOMBED under Target. Both games were quite successful. It was another division of Target that dragged the company into it's demise. My understanding is that in the USA under Target that Warzone sales were the equal of 40k. Not too shabby if that is correct. I also don't believe that Warzone as aproduct should be judged on EE's performance. They did very little to either expand or support the game. Hopefully, someoen else will realize that.
Thanks,
John
Well, I haven't been on the forums much for the past year.
Why is anyone honestly suprised EE might not get a renewal? Objectively speaking, they've been poor with releasing material, with gaps in the core Chronopia book and a CM expansion that's been promised but unseen for over three years. I have no idea what Warzone's status is as I wasn't ever a fan or player of that one, but I doubt it got much more support than Chronopia.
So to Paradox, they're in a problem spot. With the emergence of Reaper's Warlord game, Confrontation/Ragnarok, and Privateer Press' Warmachine and now Hordes, the market is broadening and GW isn't the huge mammoth that holds all the players. With how...again honestly speaking...Excelsior has failed to generate any interest in the games or expand them at all, they may or may not want to allow Chronopia and Warzone to continue. Let's not forget these games already bombed once before at Target's hands, and when a game is ditched once it's hard to get people interested again.
So if you're Paradox, you can either can it for good, or try to get a company that will support the games better. I doubt any serious companies are looking at Warzone and Chronopia though.
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Regardless of their success, these games and models are gettin' old. To revamp the lines would take a significant investment of capital, if done stateside. Dag's point about the competition being fierce is probably not lost on Paradox. I'm guessing whatever happens, the outcome will not please everybody.
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Yep. I bet at least 4 or 5 of the 12 people still playing Chronopia will probably be upset at any new changes.
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My point exactly. We're a tiny sliver of a fraction of all the gaming going on out there, us Chronopia players. Not much say in what happens to this game we dig. Made every effort to support EE, but most small businesses go under, period. There are many more Warzone players however Matt, who would be upset to see their game go under or get keelhauled.
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There really isnt much we as fans can do seems to be the general opinion, I think it should where the ones who have been crapped on time and time again for loving a game. Being a business owner you got to take your business as you have to be as commited to it as the people your business is serving. It seems to me that EE was just not as commited as we all are, which is just sad. I would love to see Chronopia and Warzone continue to thrive seeing how it is the only game that intrested me. The only thing that gets me is ive been a fan since the begining and will continue to be one as well as all who are on this forum.
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Personally, I think EE have done a lot consider the resouces that is available and the state that Target left it in. The Warzone rule itself could easily taken 6 months to get a 1st cut. The updated rules is quite thought out but sort of ran out of steam at the end. However, it could still use a revision or two. You know, typos, grammatical error, spelling, rules clarifications and the consistent inconsistencies thru out the rule book.
I really do believe EE is very committed to Warzone/Chronopia. My only wish is that maybe one of these day Cerulean Mist will be avaiable, some how.
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It would be nice as a free download if they were unable to sell it. Wishful thinking I know.
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So if nobody else is in the wings to pick up the liscense, and because of Warzone's/Chornopia's past history then they might give it back to EE. However, that may take a while to negotiate out.
My guess is, that with the movie comming out, Paradox might be thinking that it can get a better merchandising deal elsewhere for both lines. Hence a wait and see attitude.
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These overgeneralized statements of EE did nothing to expand or improve upon Chronopia/Warzone is complete and utter nonsense.
Let's see... you had a couple years of darkness... nothing going on AT ALL... and then in a matter of 1 to 2 years EE was able to collect the majority of the molds and resurrect the game from the grave. They put out rulebooks for both games and breathed life back into two systems that many of us love to play. They were able to generate interest, albeit not on the same level as GW, but that has more to do with company size and prejudice from the retailers (due to the failures of Target) that doomed them from the start. Thom worked his arse off fighting to get vendors to carry his product. Too many stores burned by target were not willing to take a second chance. Not because of the misgivings of EE but because of the labels of Warzone and Chronopia.
There are those on this forum that have been disenchanted with EE from the very beginning and will NEVER be satisfied. I do not need to point fingers because they know who they are. Coming here to this forum and continuing to say "What a crappy job EE did," isn't going to change a darn thing. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but I am here to say that what EE had to offer may not have been perfect, but it was certainly much better than the alternative--which was? Oh yeah--NOTHING.
The smoke will clear on this whole thing soon enough and we'll find out what is going to happen to Warzone and Chronopia. I don't have high hopes, but then I am naturally pessimistic about the outcome of small business ventures. I've seen them tank one time too many.
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These overgeneralized statements of EE did nothing to expand or improve upon Chronopia/Warzone is complete and utter nonsense.
Let's see... you had a couple years of darkness... nothing going on AT ALL... and then in a matter of 1 to 2 years EE was able to collect the majority of the molds and resurrect the game from the grave. They put out rulebooks for both games and breathed life back into two systems that many of us love to play. They were able to generate interest, albeit not on the same level as GW, but that has more to do with company size and prejudice from the retailers (due to the failures of Target) that doomed them from the start. Thom worked his arse off fighting to get vendors to carry his product. Too many stores burned by target were not willing to take a second chance. Not because of the misgivings of EE but because of the labels of Warzone and Chronopia.
There are those on this forum that have been disenchanted with EE from the very beginning and will NEVER be satisfied. I do not need to point fingers because they know who they are. Coming here to this forum and continuing to say "What a crappy job EE did," isn't going to change a darn thing. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but I am here to say that what EE had to offer may not have been perfect, but it was certainly much better than the alternative--which was? Oh yeah--NOTHING.
The smoke will clear on this whole thing soon enough and we'll find out what is going to happen to Warzone and Chronopia. I don't have high hopes, but then I am naturally pessimistic about the outcome of small business ventures. I've seen them tank one time too many.
I wholeheartedly agree with you Wedge.
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I have edited this post. Frankly, there really isn't any point in discussing these things Wedge. For better or worse EE is soon to be out of the WZ picture. You view that one way. I another. Fair enough.
We'll just wait and see what happens.
Thanks,
John
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While I certainly have not been active in WZ for the last year I was still dismayed to see this piece of news. As someone who has followed and played WZ for almost 10 years now I have been through the dark times and spent far too much time engaged in board fights over what has and what has not happened. I praise Thom and Excelsior for what they did accomplish, especially given the resources they had. Also in the face of what was at times overwhelming opposition. I really liked most of the WZ rule book, and was pleased to actually have something get done after the disasters that occurred with Target.
Will I be unhappy if WZ just fades away? yes, allthough I certainloy have enough figs to keep painting and playing for a long time. Buit just because I own all the figs and 3 sets of rule books does not mean that I will curse if Paradox turns the license to Hasbro and we see little Doomtrooper clicks.
My dream would be for a large enough company to buy the license and really make the push to bring the game back, complete with figs for everything and a fancy glossy new rulebook that makes everyone happy. But the reality is I don't think it will happen. I have seen far too many excellent rule sets and gammes die a gruesome death to feel that anyone has a clue what will succeed and what won't. Which is why I feel bad for Thom et al over this, because they were/are in a near no win situation, and again I praise them getting done what they did.
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In your opinion Wedge. In my opinion (one shared by quite a few folks) EE failed on almost every possible level. You know it. I know it. Why that happened may be open to debate. But I believe the saying is that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. EE had a lot of nice plans. Precious few ever actually materialized. Can you say new figs?
You think EE failed. Fine. I think they did as well as they could have under the circumstances. Fine. We agree to disagree and move on.
But, don't try to put words in my mouth by saying "You know it. I know it". I Don't share your thoughts or opinions one iota. You think you speak for many, well none of them seemed to surface (you included) until the bad news appeared about EE losing their license and then all of a sudden the nay-say'ers jump aboard and start offering their arm-chair quarter back views on why EE failed with a handful of I-told-ya-so's. It's sick; it really is. I don't pretend to know everything, and I certainly would be man enough to admit that I have no idea what it takes to run a small company like EE and be successful. I for one was simply thankful that there was someone out there that tried/is trying. I certainly wouldn't be crapping on his forum and telling him what to do and then do a smug happy-dance when I found out he failed.
You may argue that that is not what you are doing nor that it is your intention, but you know what John? It's my perception that that is what you are doing... and you can't change my perception.
Who knows what other options were open for the Warzone license? My understanding is that the WZ USA faction was making an attempt to get the rights when EE stepped in. Could they REALLY have done any worse for WZ?
Speculation. You have no idea or clue if ANYONE could have done better under the circumstances. Neither do I.
Oh and for the record. Target may have left a bad taste in folks mouths. But EE sure didn't do anything to help remove that taste. Their communication and service skills simply weren't there. Painting what happened into a pretty picture doesn't change things.
Again, you're trying to offer your opinion as fact. I think they did as much as they could under the circumstances.
I understand your loyalty to EE and Thom. I don't fault you for defending them. I wouldn't expect any less. But, lets not try and revise history into EE saved WZ and got the short end of the stick after really improving things.
I am loyal to Thom as a friend. As for his business I have my criticisms, but I only offer my side of things and opinions when asked or when I actually know what I am talking about--not just talking out of my backside.
Frankly, based on EE's performance Warzone had a difficult future in front of it at best. And yeah, I'm an optimist. ;D
And in that 2 year timeframe. EE FINALLY got out a rulebook full of all sorts of layout and editing errors. That was it Wedge. Not a stellar performance IMHO. That was the start of many folks disappointmnet.
Again I point out... a rulebook... or... nothing. Hmmm, a rulebook somehow sounds better to me. And if you were so disappointed (using your words) then why did you hang around? Was it for this? To see them maybe fail? So you could bask in their failure? Please enlighten my as to why you hung around SO disappointed for all these years? I really am confused about that. Either you are a glutton for punishment or a moron--I doubt it is the latter.
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Perhaps I hung around Wedge to try and prod EE into doing things better. Perhaps I felt there were too many folks making excuses as to why EE shouldn't be held to a higher standard. Perhaps I REALLY am a Warzone fanatic who loves the Universe but had issues with EE. Just because we all weren't enamored with EE didn't mean we don't love the WZ universe.
I don't think you ever really understood that. Perhaps you will after EE isn't in the picture.
Thanks,
John
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I forgot to mention Wedge that insinuating that I may be a moron is both beneath you as a person discussing a point and as a moderator here. We have seen way too much of this from folks who were affiliated with EE over the years. I think you may want to edit that post.
Thanks,
John
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Perhaps I hung around Wedge to try and prod EE into doing things better. Perhaps I felt there were too many folks making excuses as to why EE shouldn't be held to a higher standard. Perhaps I REALLY am a Warzone fanatic who loves the Universe but had issues with EE. Just because we all weren't enamored with EE didn't mean we don't love the WZ universe.
I don't think you ever really understood that. Perhaps you will after EE isn't in the picture.
Thanks,
John
Again you infer that I am enamored with EE. I am not enamored. Enamored insinuates that one is blinded by emotion. I am not blinded at all. Please stop trying to paint me as a sycophant.
And I have been a fan of Warzone LONG before EE ever came into the picture. I played SotC, Fury of the Clansmen, 1st Edition Warzone and Chronopia, etc. So I am first and foremost a fan of the game. It just so happens that I consider Thom a friend because of my involvement with the Crusader program, and he and a handful of others revived the game that I love.
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I forgot to mention Wedge that insinuating that I may be a moron is both beneath you as a person discussing a point and as a moderator here. We have seen way too much of this from folks who were affiliated with EE over the years. I think you may want to edit that post.
Thanks,
John
I never insinuated you were a moron. You assumed that on your own. I said I doubt you were a moron, and more likely a glutton for punishment. Please re-read the last line of my post that offended you.
And here we go again, you are saying "way too many folks affiliated with EE" have slighted others with their posts. You obviously have a cross to burn and you feel you must burn it whenever you can.
If I have offended you as a person, a moderator, and a fellow gamer I apologize on all three counts. I was making a point that you should have left the game years ago if you were so disappointed. I truly do not know your motives nor do I pretend to. I am trying to figure them out by asking.
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Now this is the Warzone Forum I remember. ::)
Where's Grumpel and Topkick to really kick things into gear? ;)
Now really what is everyone fighting about? Whether or not EE did anything? They did do something, 2 rulebooks, plus some figures, that is fact. Was that enough to resurrect either game to their high point? No. Could they have done more? Given the circumstances probably not. We can all agree on 2 things though: we love these games and don't want them to disappear, and we appreciate what has been done.
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Now this is the Warzone Forum I remember. ::)
Where's Grumpel and Topkick to really kick things into gear? ;)
Now really what is everyone fighting about? Whether or not EE did anything? They did do something, 2 rulebooks, plus some figures, that is fact. Was that enough to resurrect either game to their high point? No. Could they have done more? Given the circumstances probably not. We can all agree on 2 things though: we love these games and don't want them to disappear, and we appreciate what has been done.
Not everyone appreciates everything that has been done. But at least you, Pieper, can admit that EE did do something to further the worlds Warzone and Chronopia. Other's feel they did nothing--which I find ridiculous and utter nonsense (as I stated in one of my earlier posts).
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I think this has gone far enough. :(
Thread closed if more relevant information regarding the status of the license should appear it will have to be posted in another thread.