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Warzone => Events, Army Ideas, Battle Reports => Topic started by: Sylvas on November 24, 2005, 07:28:33 AM

Title: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 24, 2005, 07:28:33 AM
I'm starting to write a scenario for possible submission to Topkick for Origins, and I was wondering if anyone out there might have some ideas as to terrain, force organization, etc.

Basically, it is Capitol assaulting a Mishima held position in s jungle setting, very similar to the US Marines assaulting the island of Iwo Jima in WW2.  I am visualizing this being an assault on a Misihima encampment, well fortified and defended.

I am thinking about using 1250-1500 Capitol, using the Capitol Navy list, and about 750 points of Mishima without using the Lord Heir lists.

Other than that, I just have very basic ideas (as I said, I just started to research writing this)...so if anyone has any ideas, I sure could use them.

B.
I post more as I start fleshing things out...the more possible playtestingI can get, the better it will be...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: dmcgee1 on November 24, 2005, 08:17:41 AM
Iwo Jima was a horrific, sacrificial (on the Japanese) battle in which the Japanese were so well dug in that 10 days of off-shore bombardment did nothing as far as softening up the island.

If you are going to have Mishima defend have them outnumbered 2:1 and have them be considered in hard cover at ALL times (exception, charging or in CC).  Further, give all Mishiman the effect of Resolve: 3 (They know they're going to die, they just want kill as many Capitolians as they can before they do!).

Have the Mishiman deployanywhere on the board, with at least half the force in a regualr deployment zone.  They may be on Wait.

The Free Marines deploy normally, but can be subject to WAIT actions the moment they are revealed.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on November 24, 2005, 08:56:57 AM
Dmcgee has a great idea, I'd modify it so that the Mishimans are assume to pas any morale based LD checks.

and yeah, they should have a 2-3 to 1 advantage, even if it's mostly ashigaru and Faceless.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 24, 2005, 12:21:47 PM
I love that idea dmcgee...I'll have to do that...

as for the Mishima force organization...I was thinking about Faceless and Ronin Samurai instead of Ashigaru...I'm thinking this because Ashigaru are regular citizens just caught up in the fight, but Ronin are more or less professional soldiers (be they mercenary or not)...I was thinking that the Faceless might be disgraced soldiers...

the points totals so far are just working totals...this may be, because of the way I envision the scenario, a 3-to-1 scenario...

more to come I'm sure...

B.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Veez on November 24, 2005, 11:11:23 PM
You might also want to develop mines/booby or pre-planned on-call targets traps that the Mishiman player controls (give him markers, some false, some real that initiate explosions).   Something to simulate a tunnel system would be a great touch.

I got a chance to tour Iwo Jima to include climbing Mt Suribachi.  It was a hell of a climb without being shot at.  Add to that the island is volcanically active, yet they riddled the mountain and surrouding countryside with tunnels, bunkers, etc. which we got to tour as well.  The caves still have some equipment in them.  Most of the bodies have been found and buried, but new ones are found all the time.  It was a humbling experience.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: dmcgee1 on November 25, 2005, 04:22:33 PM
I love that idea dmcgee...I'll have to do that...

as for the Mishima force organization...I was thinking about Faceless and Ronin Samurai instead of Ashigaru...I'm thinking this because Ashigaru are regular citizens just caught up in the fight, but Ronin are more or less professional soldiers (be they mercenary or not)...I was thinking that the Faceless might be disgraced soldiers...

the points totals so far are just working totals...this may be, because of the way I envision the scenario, a 3-to-1 scenario...

more to come I'm sure...

B.

Read your history book - plenty of ordinary citizens died on Iwo Jima...most threw themselves off cliffs rather than be subjected to the tortures the Japanese military told them that the US Marines would inflict upon them.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Veez on November 25, 2005, 08:27:44 PM
That was Okinawa.  I've been to both, there isn't room on Iwo Jima for peasants, plus there aren't any good cliffs to fling one's self off of.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 25, 2005, 08:49:27 PM
Read your history book - plenty of ordinary citizens died on Iwo Jima...most threw themselves off cliffs rather than be subjected to the tortures the Japanese military told them that the US Marines would inflict upon them.

the more I'm thinking about it, I am probably going to have to include Ashigaru squads just for some of the choices that they offer...

I'm just using Iwo Jima as an example...I'm not trying to create a scenario that matches it exactly...but as I've been thinking about it , I've been changing some of the lists that I've had in my head as I've been taking some of the ideas that have been posted here and been mulling them over...

minefields...probably, but not in stone yet...hardened positions,...definitely, that is a definite because of the scenario...

B.
almost have a working Mishima list...then on the Capitol...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: dmcgee1 on November 25, 2005, 10:05:20 PM
That was Okinawa.  I've been to both, there isn't room on Iwo Jima for peasants, plus there aren't any good cliffs to fling one's self off of.

So, it is I who needs the reading, then.  My apologies.  Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Topkick on November 26, 2005, 08:09:57 AM
Between EE, Stalker and myself we should have enough trenches, sandbags, and emplacements to give a good representation of a fortified position. If you need to use them holler and I'll try to make sure and reserve them for you that slot.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 27, 2005, 08:40:23 AM
Between EE, Stalker and myself we should have enough trenches, sandbags, and emplacements to give a good representation of a fortified position. If you need to use them holler and I'll try to make sure and reserve them for you that slot.

I was at Stalker's house last night (until close to 3am), designing the force lists and talking about terrain placement...I think that we have flushed out the units, although there have been some discussions about the force sizes, and we started talking about the composition of the board...luckily, we have a friend up here that is a terrain building geek...

B.
BTW...how big is too big for an Origins scenario?...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on November 27, 2005, 09:09:36 AM
Too big to fit in the room?

I mean, even if it takes up the whole room, all ya gotta do it build a suspension system so the players can hang over the 100' x 100' board.

I'm sure the convention center would be cool with it...
and if they aren't, tell 'em GW said it was OK.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 27, 2005, 11:48:48 AM
Too big to fit in the room?

I mean, even if it takes up the whole room, all ya gotta do it build a suspension system so the players can hang over the 100' x 100' board.

I'm sure the convention center would be cool with it...
and if they aren't, tell 'em GW said it was OK.

that might be fun...susupended over the game like actors in bad martial arts movies starring Jet Li...

B.
I meant too big points wise
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Topkick on November 27, 2005, 03:02:11 PM
I'd say if it goes over 96 hours then it might be too long.  ;)  Seriously I've seen games that have run in shifts over the whole Con so basically the question becomes how long are you and your team of assistants willing to run? Other than that make it a continious game and require a fresh ticket every 4 hours. That way people can rotate in and out as their Con plans allow.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on November 27, 2005, 04:04:43 PM
I think Topkick is onto something.  It would be an absolutly sick idea.  You could get different people to play different squads, and if they're far enough away from each other, you could have them activate simultaniously, that would speed the game up, at least.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 27, 2005, 04:30:18 PM
I think Topkick is onto something.  It would be an absolutly sick idea.  You could get different people to play different squads, and if they're far enough away from each other, you could have them activate simultaniously, that would speed the game up, at least.

this was something that I was going to do...I've played in some relatively large games up here and it really does speed things up...except when some of the people in question are slowing things down (by talking...ignoring...getting in fights with each other..etc)

Not sure if it is going to be so big that it requires multiple time slots...that might be too much...

B.
but hey...I've done worse...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Veez on November 27, 2005, 09:43:12 PM
You laugh but I have seen "training boards" (let's face it they are game board complete with terrain and figures and everything) that take that are 50 x 80 feet.  They are raised above the ground like a regular table and those sticks like you see in WWII movies are used to move units around.

Worse, down in Norfolk at the Naval Base, the Marine Corps has an "Amphibiousl Landing Simulator" that you have to see to believe.  This thing has been around since the 1950's and uses cutting edge 50's train set technology, enhanced over the years with big screen monitor and little else.  Ships move forward, landing craft circle.  Other ships fire and things on the shore blow up.   An F-18 even flies into the ground.  It's awesome in it's train wreck glory.

Both were made out of plaster and wood but had terrain.  If worked on either base I swear I would sneak in on the weekends and play on them just to say I'd done it.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on November 28, 2005, 06:45:15 AM
If they ever throw them out, grab 'em!
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Topkick on November 28, 2005, 01:00:27 PM
I met a guy at a Con that played Crimson Skies and used old WWII era aerial maps that covered 2 ping pong tables and used sticks to move planes. Reminded me of the old Battle of Britain movies where they showed RAF command tracking incoming planes and responding RAF squadrons
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Veez on November 28, 2005, 10:27:44 PM
The funny part is that the one was supposed to be tied into a computer system that was projected above the board showing wear simulated fire was landing.  It kept breaking down and the instructors would toss cotton balls onto the field to simulate where the rounds were landing. 

And they laugh at us and call us geeks.

Going back to the original topic-Okinawa may in many ways be a better parallel for what you are trying to accomplish.  I realize you are not trying to recrate a battle, merely capture the feel, but Iwo Jima was burned black by the times troops landed.  Okinawa still had plenty of jungle left and would be more realistic to have trees and bushes and the like to pop out of.  Another conept may be the Banzai charge.  Have surivivirs of broken units or those down to one or two troops consolodate into a large force at a central location then (create an "average" for close combat and have them get to do one final charge against the enemy that will fight to the last man and cannot fail morale.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 29, 2005, 08:26:16 PM
I think that the background is going to be more like a jungle firebase with a small garrison that is in the middle of an inspection by a higher officer and his retinue is suddenly attacked by a large Capitol force that is looking for something....

I haven't worked out all of the details yet, but I've still got a little time yet...

B.
Okinawa does sound like a better parallel...I love the internet search engines...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Jibbajabbawocky on November 30, 2005, 06:13:03 AM
Well, Capitol could be there trying to kill the Officer... and do as much collateral damage as possible.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on November 30, 2005, 07:38:37 PM
Well, Capitol could be there trying to kill the Officer... and do as much collateral damage as possible.

nope...identification and elimination of Mishima assets...the killing of the officer is just a bonus...

B.
almost done...just a few small tweaks...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Topkick on November 30, 2005, 07:58:30 PM
Nice thought JibJab - An interesting variation would be to add an antenna or a microwave comms tower/dish to the strongpoint and have Capitol assault the sectors comms center prior to the main assault. Make the objectives as follows:

1) Disable the comms tower/dish
2) Kill the officer and
3) Capture the codebook

The degree that these are accomplished could then have an influence on future scenarios
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on December 01, 2005, 05:52:23 PM
Nice thought JibJab - An interesting variation would be to add an antenna or a microwave comms tower/dish to the strongpoint and have Capitol assault the sectors comms center prior to the main assault. Make the objectives as follows:

1) Disable the comms tower/dish
2) Kill the officer and
3) Capture the codebook

The degree that these are accomplished could then have an influence on future scenarios

DING DING DING DING...

Topkick wins the big prize...in fact, the antenna idea was exactly what I was thinking about from the beginning...

B.
All done now also...now on to playtesting...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Stalker on December 07, 2005, 05:06:02 PM
Quote
All done now also...now on to playtesting...
Quote

OK so when do we start this?  How do things look for you this Sunday?  Kevin from Michigan is coming down and we're going to put together a match, or two, or three, or you get the point.

Anyway, let me know.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on December 07, 2005, 08:19:56 PM
OK so when do we start this?  How do things look for you this Sunday?  Kevin from Michigan is coming down and we're going to put together a match, or two, or three, or you get the point.

gotta work...you know, the Christams shopping season...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel better now...

B.
Tension breaker...had to be done...
let me know if you need the army lists...
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Wedge on December 08, 2005, 10:53:46 AM
Slightly off topic:

The best book I have EVER read on WWII (and I've read plenty) was "Flags of our Father's" by James Bradley.  James' father was one of the flag raisers at Iwo Jima--and it is a reflective story about all the events that occurred through the eyes of the dozens and dozens of surviving marines that he interviewed.  Truly a wonderful book and awesome story.  I agree with Brokaw, they are the Greatest Generation.

And yes... Iwo Jima was nearly terrainless.  No trees to speak of... lots of scrub brush and holes in the ground from all the shelling.  There were HUNDREDS of pillboxes dotting the landscape and the underground tunnels and bunkers were a true labyrinth of rooms and hallways.  You could get lost on there for months.  Most marines didn't even see a Japanese soldier until after several days of fighting.

Anyway... just thought I'd put that out there.
Title: Re: Iwo Jima...
Post by: Sylvas on December 08, 2005, 02:16:41 PM
I am able to cheat a little bit about designing this scenario because I know someone that took part in several of the major offensives in the Pacific...this person came in at the tail end of the Iwo Jima offensive but took part fully in the Okinawa offensive...I've been picking his brain pretty intensively via the internet over the last couple of weeks regarding terrain, etc...

what I've designed is based on these offensives, but not a replica of them...I'm planning on using some type of jungle terrain and bunkers, but the final layout I'm still wrestling with at this time...

the hardest thing about this was the army lists, which I've finally finalized...I have 2 lists available, one which I am going to submit to Topkick, and one that I might play for fun with some of the more advanced players that show up (but nothing official as far as the Origins playlists are concerned)...

B.
will the warmth ever return?