Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Talaminiatures => General Discussions => Non-Game Related Banter => Topic started by: joshuaslater on October 17, 2005, 06:21:45 AM
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I am currently slogging my way through Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, and I'm into the fifth book, with much more to go. I liked Jordan's writing from the three Conan novellas he wrote--this guy was really in the swing of Robert Howard, so I decided on the Wheel books. I don't know if they are nescessarily good fiction, but any fantasy series that's kept me through five books so far is at least holding my interest. Admittedly, there are some stretches of tedium insofar as to leave me settin' em down for a spell and reading the latest Warhammer novel to come along. I tear through those usually in two sittings, but I've been returning to Jordan, and even want to see how the series turns out.
What do y'all recommend? Especially in the fantasy/ sci-fi department, but any will do.
Cheers.
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I am currently re-re-RE-reading the Lord of the Rings. Most excelent book, especially if you want to know where Dungeons and Dragons came from. Even after having seen the movies, i still recomend the books, because there are a TON of scenes, etc, that were cut from the final movie. Yes, its a hard/long read, but well worth it! Also, you need to start with "The Hobbit" just to understand how it all begins, etc.
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I did some of that same re-re-re you did! Especially to get the scenes when the four Hobbits came back to the Shire and had to clean house--hmm, reminds me of the Odyssey at the end. You're right, the movies were great, but gettin' to the source is a good thing.
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The Wheel of Time series is a complete and total waste of time. It is probably the single best example of absolute garbage and verbal diarrhea. The writing style when not "inspired" is repetitive (pages of hair pulling), insulting (euphaisms for everything remotely dirty) and downright obnoxious (Forebludgioning of story points in a hamm fisted and butcherous way ie "sheathin the sword" and every thing Matt does). Jordan goes beyond taking inspiration from other writers and falls directly into the plagiarism. He steals ideas directly out of all fantasy and scifi Classics. From the Nazghul of Tolkien to the Frank Herberts Fremen the only even remotely original idea he's come up with is the creative naming scheme for other writers popular characters, Lan Mandoragon is a complete rip off of Aragorn.
Do NOT read The Wheel of Time. Put the book down where you are. Do not support or encourage that worthless hack. He left explicit instructions that in the event of his death all of his notes are to be destroyed and his computers hard drive wiped. This is not because he doesn't want someone ruining his works (he's done a fair enough job of that on his own) but because he doesn't want anyone seeing his copies of The Lord of the Rings and every Dragon Lance book with all the important bits highlighted for future use in his novels.
There is only one modern Fantasy writer you should ever touch and that is George R. R. Martin and his Song of Ice and Fire series is incredible, engaging and an absolute Masterpiece. Go to your nearest book store, or just online (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553573403/qid=1129560208/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-3430787-1388051?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), and buy A Game of Thrones. You won't be dissapointed.
If you want to retain a modicum of respect from me, you'll stack all Jordan novels near the toilet (in case it overflows, it's not worthy of being wiped across my @ss) and redeem yourself in A Game of Thrones and it's follow up novels.
-PFC joe
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I'm with ya, Joe. I'm engaged in an excercise of masochism, just seeing if I can get through these books. I find myself disappointed with Jordan's own work. He's better trying to write in other's style, i.e. the Conan stuff he wrote was actually good. I so far have managed not to throw them across the room, but seeing as the heating bills are going to be through the roof, I've got a friend with a wood burning stove. ;D
Thanks for the tips, Joe. I'll pick up that "Game of Thrones" and get back to ya.
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I second PFC Joes advice: Song of ice and fire is a fantastic series, I have read all books in six days.. :o
Wheel of time begins pretty solid imo but drags on and on and on without anything really happening, I gave up on it with book 23 (german edition)...
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Now I won't feel bad givin' up on this mess. This has been a catharthis of sorts.
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Don't try to use Wheel of Time in a life saving or heating related manner. A friend of mine tried to burn "the Eye of the World" in protest and came down with a terrible case of stupid-poisioning. Just stay away from those terrible, terrible books.
-PFC joe
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If you want a good read, try Frederick Pohl, Issac Asimov, Orson Scott Card, HG Wells, etc, the "founders of the genre" (sci-fi, that is).
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What about the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser series?
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I just finished American Scream: The biography of Bill Hicks last night and curled up in a fetal ball as I realized life is too short and I should work at achieving something more with my life. For those that might not know, Bill Hicks was a brilliant, scathing comedian that died of pancreatic cancer at the tender age of 32.
Also reading Night-Time Guy by Tony Kenrick. It's okay, average thriller about a man treated to see in total darkness but becomes blind in the daytime. Nothing much to recommend about it. Fairly standard and written with average style.
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So, Joe. I take it you don't like The Wheel of Time? :P
I recently finished reading The Rise and Fall of Modern Medicine by James Le Fanu. A really great book about the advances in medicine since the 1930s and onward and how medicine fell at the end of the 70s.
Currently, I am reading The Ring of Fire by Eric Flint. It's a short story collection set in his alternate history 1632 setting.
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For very good heroic fantasy i can recomend David Gemmel. I love all his books.
In the SF area David Webber and John Ringo write some good stuff (if you are into military SF)
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Weber's Harrington books are a great series. Highly recommended for those who like military SF.
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Trying to find the time to read Les Miserables
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At the moment, I am reading 2 books.
The main book(s) I am reading is The Sailor on the Seas of Fate by Michael Moor****. This is the second of the Elric saga (one of my favorite fantasy series). The writing style is very definitely British, very similar to Tolkien's flowery writing style, so if you do not like that writing style, you might not like his books.
I am also reading a book called Ship of Fools by Paul Russo. It is a very twisted, pyschological sci-fi thriller very similar to Alan Dean Foster's book Alien.
Another good book that I have just finished is Pandora's Star by Peter Hamilton. Now I have to warn people, it's a 1,000 page paperback, and there is a sequel coming out early next year, but this book made me turn the pages and some of the things that I thought were trivial at the beginning of the book turned out to be extremely important by the end. I recommend it highly.
B
And BTW...the Wheel of Time series is one of the worst series I have ever tried to read. I think that I got through book 3 before I just gave up because of terminal boredom.
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so, who is worse, Clancy or this wheel of time? I love Clancy, but, it takes a good 2-300 pages for him to get the plot moving. Is wheel of time like this, or a wheel of time that does not move, keeping you in perpetual limbo?
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Wheel of Time is worse by far.
It's complete drivel. Clancey may take a few chapters to reach a point but Jordan takes a few pages.
-PFC joe
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I'm reading Photocopies by Berger right now. It's not a sci-fi but it's for class. I haven't had time to read anything I want to, Capilano College requires lots of reading! In between textbooks and the Chronopia rulebook I'm reading the Fault of Kaiber (the confrontation novel). Pretty good.
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The last (english) books I've read were the dragon-crown cycle by Michael Stackpole. In fact, I've read all of his Fantasy- and Battletechnovels.
I've read George Martin, too...but if you want to read something very good try Steven Erikson. He's very different to other writers, he is the first who hasn't stolen anything from 'Lord of the Rings' so far that I could recommend it. Try it and you will love it....
If you are looking for non SF/Fantasy fiction, try Karin Slaughter, Patricia Cornwell, Kathy Reichs, Mo Hayder, James Patterson or Dennis Lehane...
just my two cents...
Anomander Rake
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For Sci-Fi, pick up just about anything by Michael Resnick. Santiago and Ivory are a very good place to start.
His writing style is superb, and the storys are very well thought out.
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Even though he writes for the game company that no one dares mention, Dan Abnett is a brilliant writer. He's definately my favorite writer in the world. Nabokov, Fitzgerald, Shakespeare, James, they're all hacks when put next to Abnett! If you can get a hold of the Eisenhorn trilogy it's an amazing read. Don't worry, the company won't suck you in by reading the trilogy, take it purely as a science-fiction novel. Last time I checked it was $15 CDN for the big book.
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I have almost all the Warhammer novels and I agree, Dan Abnett is really good. I haven't read the 40K fiction. I would love to see some fiction in the worlds of Chronopia and Warzone. :)
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I've been reading "The Great and Secret Show" & "Everville" by Clive Barker. This time through I feel more kinship with the antagonist instead of the protagonist.
PMP Ving
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Good selections, the Barker stuff, though I'd hardly call it anything a family should enjoy together. Try the Books of Blood for a better collection of his short stories, but stay away from Galilee, it's one of his weaker efforts.
-PFC joe
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Clive Barkers "In the Flesh" scared the hell out of me.
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I'm a big fan of clive barkers short stories.
In the flesh and books of blood series is very good also loved the Cabal novel
(nightbreed movie).
Another collection of shorts done by a different author is Soft and Others, very
twilight zone'ish.
Steven kings Dark Tower seris. Damn good.
I've really enjoyed some John Ringo's books example: Dance with the devil
as for as warhammer novels goes Its got to be the The slayers series.
God I love that little engine of destruction that is the Trollslayer.
One the reasons I dig my darkaxes so much. 8)
sooo many good books such little time to type.
-steve
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"The Theif of Always" is the only book by Barker that I would consider for family reading. I read his stuff because he flies in the face of conventional story plots and structure, kind of like what H.P. Lovecraft did in his day.
I have never been able to get through a single book from the Black Library. I can get a few chapters into some of the Warhammer books, but never more than a few pages into a 40K book, even the Eisenhorn trilogy.
I like Stephen Kings short stories (all of his best movies are made from his short stories) but I can't stand his full length books. The only exception for me was "The Stand".
PMP Ving
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masher, I'm with you on the Trollslayer series--so much fun. I also dug the Warhammer book "Zavant". It's a really fun read where Zavant Konniger is the Sherlock Holmes of the Warhammer world. Really fun stuff.
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you my friend have been awarded a appauled point. 8)
anyone who likes the trollslayers series gets points in my book.
I've heard zavant to be a good book, well good for a warhammer novel.
-steve.
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Yes, my friends break my balls for reading them, saying they're written at about a fifth grade reading level, but all scathing criticism aside, I'll still buy them, read, and enjoy, guilty pleasure or no.
Thanks for the applause. The latest Warhammer book I've read is that "Guardians of the Forest". It was just okay.
I still have to score the last two books in Fritz Leiber's Swords novels.
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At the moment I`m reading the Lovecraft Omnibus Book 1 "At the mountains of Madness". I read it a long time ago but I was quite impressed with his early novels too..
Greetings,
Catinator
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I'll step up to the plate and fire back that WOT is a fine series for those who don't expect answers at the end of the novel each time. It is a long war and takes a long time to unravel. The characters are multi-facted and each has his or her own motivations, something conflicting. There is also much deeper meaning such as the paralles between the energies used by the two sexes and the relationships between men and women. The best way to read them is one after another and no separated by actual years; the plot is too complex and you spend too much time trying to figure out who is who. I will agree that they have slowed under their own momentup but the author has indicated that they will begin to accelerate again.
I have also recently read James Harriot's semi-autobiographies about his life as a British Vet in the 1930's, quite a bit of Dan Abnett (most recently Ravenor and Double Eagle), The Chronicles of Narnia, The Space Trilogy (also by Lewis) The Dune pre-quels (not up to the standard of the original by any stretch of the imagination), a bit of John Ringo, and Excavation by James Rollins (not a great work but it passed the time). Generation Kill is also quite good, as is the CH-46E NATOPS (the flow of the emergency procedures is smooth but to the point, I also reccomend the section on the emergency throttle). It would be nice to see some new MC/WZ books but you guys already have too much on your plate and frankly if it isn't going to be done right, don't do it (that means not hiring Stackpoole again who I am boycotting for political and artistic reasons).
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It's funny Veez, 'cause as much as I find flaws in the Wheel of Time, I'm still going through the fifth book! Talk about mixed emotions. There's still enough to hold my interest, which is what I put in the beginning of this thread, but I understand how some readers might not be able to stand it. So while I can see both sides of the criticism, I think I'll just keep on keepin' on. I gotta find out where this story goes, in the same way I'm a sucker for the fluff (excellent fluff) of Chronopia.
Veez--who is Stackpoole? You don't have to go into your reasons for boycott. I just was curious where this person's name appears. Is it a Warzone thang? I haven't delved into Warzone yet....only a matter of time. Cheers.
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Bear in mind that I may be spelling his name wrong but Michael Stackpole (poole? dang it!) got his start doing the Battletech novels (at least that's were he hit the big time) and they were fantastic; epic, well written, etc. He also a phonominal trilogy for Dark Conspiracy. He knocked out a couple of orginal works that were so-so. He is relevant to MC in that he wrote the third novel in the trilogy which was good up until the end where he cheesed out. I will admint it is the best of the three; the first was awful, the second passable. I think that marked the beginning of his decline because after that all his works started to blend together (main character has amnesia, never makes mistakes, etc.).
Though I will not retract my position on WOT I will admit that they grow ponderous at times but if you push through you will find them worth reading. Usually you find more on the second reading that you missed or glossed over the first go around.
I love the WZ fluff; what I like about Chronopia is that it is not the blatant Tolken rip-off that drives the other systems. Yes you have elves and dwarves and their is a strong influence but the creaters were not afraid to go their own direction.
To end on a high note, I will reccomend The Fionnovar Trilogy by Guy Gavirel Kay. Good, solid epic fantasy. His other works are good as well but I think he peaked out early.
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Veez--you nailed down what I like about Chronopia. The Elves don't sing like the smurfs, the Orcs and Goblins are a smart civilization, and the Dwarves don't look and behave like John Rhys-Davies. I loved reading Tolkien, mind, and it propelled my roleplaying experience as a youth, but this fantasy setting rocks!
P.S. I'm halfway through book five of WOT. What I see people not liking is the bits of Tolkien that were borrowed. The whole first book reminded me of Frodo and Company being chased by the black riders. The storyline is deep, and if it wasn't somewhat engaging, I wouldn't have made it this far. Thanks for the encouragement. Cheers.
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Hmm..... lets see...
Within the last 2 months, I've read the first 3 Rogue Warrior books by Dick Marchinko, which are great quasi-biographical stories of his time in the Navy SEALS and after (the first was an actual auto-biography, and is damn fine)
I finished reading Rainbow Six, which I quite enjoyed, even though it dragged in the middle. (I love Tom Clancy, but I will admit his books can get a bit long winded)
I read the Dune prequal trilogy, and thought it was pretty good.
I read the first 2 Trollslayer books, and damn, I love them. :)
Hmm..... apart from that, I read about 6 or so Destroyer novels, which are nice, quick, and damn good fun.
Now I need to start on the Foundation Trilogy, and the last Flashman book...
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Found this thread and thought I would drop in my two cents...
I am hip deep in reading the Warhammer, Malus Darkblade book. My next book will probably be Harry Turtledove's Settling Accounts: Return Engagement. I read his alternate history, In the Balance and was hooked. I also have a pile of 40k novels I should try and work my way through.
Props to the Troll Slayer fans!!
If anyone is looking for a really good SciFi book (IMO) pick up John Steakley's Armor.
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I've heard great things about Armor. 'Have to read it. Malus Darkblade was a fun read. Great anti-hero. Cheers.
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Armor is very good book.
loved it from start to finish.
you should total read it.
-steve
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...... I think that marked the beginning of his decline because after that all his works started to blend together (main character has amnesia, never makes mistakes, etc.). .........
I guess you haven't read any of his books lately? ;)
Anyway, the first books I read in SciFi/Fantasy, besides R.A. Salvatore, haven been the Stackpole Books... altough I've never read his Star Wars-Novels, I can't see anything of this decline...
Perhaps I'm not that objective about his books, the is one of my most-liked authors, but I haven't read a book of him in the last years that had been as bad as you say. I would say he hasn't even reached his climax...but I could be not objective enough...
just my two cents...
Anomander Rake
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Just finished Game of Thrones ( I'm hooked), big Stackpole fan also, Abnetts Gaunts' Ghosts series is a fave read as well as the Trollslayer series by King.
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Have read him recently.
Common threads:
Amnesia - lost track of how many times this plot device has been used
1st Person Main Characters - never make mistakes
Mecha - can't get away from it, even in his fantasy novels
Can't give a bad guy a decent name to save his life (the Ice Queen, the Chaos Lord? Please!)
Dark Glory War followed this threat for the most part. The Trilogy that followed broke from it a little.
Frankly he peaked at the Dark Conspiracy trilogy.
My dissapointment is born of previous hope. Maybe I'll give his new trilogy a whirl for old times sake but I am not optomistic.
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Welp, I wish I had time to re-read the WoT series. I stopped reading them at about book 7, I just got tired af trying to remember all the extraneous plots that keep going on from book to book. Now Im hearing the latest installment is actually decent. So I have forgotten all previous events so I need to rehash the good books at least. What I mean from that is that the first 5 are pretty decent if you dont mind the borrowing, but it can get to be a strain to carry on after that.
Right now Im reading Napoleon Bonaparte by Alan Schom. Its a pretty comprehensive work about "the little bugger", as he is described by some of his advisaries.
Before that I zipped through Revenge of the Sith. The book is remarkably better than the movie.
Ed
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I'm dyin' over here! I am exasperated. Book five is half way read, and I stopped to read two Warhammer novels. 'Haven't spun the wheel again yet. Sigh.
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I'm about 4-5 chapters into Hunt for Red October, and it's very good so far. I highly recomend it to anyone who hasn't read it, or has any interest in Cold War thrillers.
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Well, I've given up on the Wheel of Time; I made it half way through book five, and then respectfully set it down instead of throwing it across the room and frightening my dogs.
I've just cracked George R.R. Martin's "Game of Thrones". I'm barely into it, but I'm curious to see how it turns out. Hope y'all had a good holiday. Cheers.
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Just knocked out Koonz's Frankenstein books (waiting for the third) and now I'm reading Chasm City by Alistair Reynolds a not sequel but in the same world as Revelation Space.
DK'sF wasn't bad. An interesting take on the story turned myth turned frighteningly real. Not far enough into CC to make a judgement yet but RS was good.
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Horror is a good genre. I'm not currently reading it but anyone looking for a unique interpretation of Dracula should read The Dracula Tape by Fred Saberhagen. It retells the original story from Dracula's viewpoint. Definitely a good evenings read.
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Saberhagen has been sadly underrated his entire career. His Berzerker novels never got the recognition that they deserved and his Books of Swords is solid from what I hear.
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So, I finished Red October, and it was damn good, I highly recomend it,.
Now, I'm picking up Flashman and the Tiger.
For those who've never heard of the series, Flashman is a Victorian era scalliwag who ends up being one of the greatest heroes the British Empire has ever seen. (Well, he does this by being in the right place at the right time, and generally being an absolute cad) The whole series is really funny, and is VERY well researched, and full of actual historical characters and events.
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So, I finished Red October, and it was damn good, I highly recomend it,.
I like Clancy's books...the one I like most is 'Without Remorse'...it's the history of the man, who will later become John Clark
It can be compared to 'Man on fire'...the book was great, for the time it was written..and the second movie they made of it with Denzel Washington has been great...
just my two cents...
Anomander Rake
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Clancy is a really good author, who's pretty good at mixing the widgetty technical side of miitary thrillers, with good character development and action.
that, and his video games rock on toast. Especially Splinter Cell...
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So, I finished Red October, and it was damn good, I highly recomend it,.
Now, I'm picking up Flashman and the Tiger.
For those who've never heard of the series, Flashman is a Victorian era scalliwag who ends up being one of the greatest heroes the British Empire has ever seen. (Well, he does this by being in the right place at the right time, and generally being an absolute cad) The whole series is really funny, and is VERY well researched, and full of actual historical characters and events.
Sounds a bit like the short lived Bruce Campbell series - Union Jack I think it was called. I'll have to check that out
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kinda, yeah. The first book is simply titled "Flashman", and deals with his first escapades in India and Afghanistan.
http://www.harryflashman.org.uk/
This is the closest to an "official" website the series has, and a new one just came out, so I'm waiting for it to get to the US. (Or order it on Ebay)
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I am currently reading the Book of Swords series by Fred Saberhagen. He is a very fine writer and I think you would like his books Josh. I also just finished the Dark Elf series by R.A. Salvatore. Yah I am a serious geek-sue me.
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Just finished Traitor General by Dan Abnett. Not a 40Ker but I like the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. Interesting direction he took with this book and I am looking forward to the next one already.
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I picked up The Complete Book of Swords in a book club many years ago, and I read it and re-read it until it literally fell apart, an all-time favorite of mine.
I still remember one verse of the Song of Swords, about my favorite blade...
"The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled, but doth the spirt carve...
Soulcutter hath no body killed, but many left to starve..."
A horror saga that I read about that time that I liked was Brian Lumley's "Necroscope" series, about Harry Keogh, a rather mundane character, except for his ability to speak with the Dead. Throw in Ferdinand Mobius, Albert Einstein, Leonardo DaVinci, and a few very old vampires, and it makes for quite the interesting story...
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Hmm. I can't say that my reading is nearly as fanciful as most of yours. I just finished Sociology: A Down to Earth Approach and I'm about to start reading Social Problems. I guess this is the reality that I must come to expect, no time to read for fun anymore.
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Just finished an odd book, called To Say Nothing of the Dog by an author named Connie Willis...it's pretty good, if you can handle the Victorian era and the social norms that were in place then...
B.
BTW...it's a science fiction book...
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Since we are on a Victorian kick, The Alienist and its sequel are quite good. Not scifi but interesting none-the-less. I just finished John Ringo's There Will Be Dragons. I had a hard time getting into it but it was good once it got started. I'm working on Lustbader's Mistress of the Pearl, the third book in that series. I think it will progress past a trilogy based on what I have read so far.
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The Alienist is one of my all time favorites! Great read.
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I two felt the same way about john ringos book, But once your hooked your hooked
(didnt help I started with the middle book of the series :-\) Damn fine read.
Looking to see what other books he wrote. His one of the authors on my must read list.
someone wrote about the Necroscope. I just want add my thumbs up to that series (at least the earlier books havent read the last few).
-steve
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Yesterday I ended reading the book Quicksilver Rising (Der magische bund) by Stan Nicholls. And I must say, I'm really surprised...I have read his first book, I believe, the Orcs and it was mostly average fantasy... With Quicksilver Rising he has done a good job. I'm looking forward to read the rest of the trilogy...
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I have just finished The Big Bang by Simon Singh. It's a book describing how astronomy, physics and the theory of the origin of the universe has evolved. I can really recommend the book, it manages to explain complex astronomical and physics questions in a way which is both easy to understand for the layman and also quite entertaining. Sing has also written The Codebreakers and Fermat's Last Theorem which deal with codes and math respectively. I haven't read Codebreakers but the other one manages to make the history of math become a very exciting story.
This weekend I bought the Chronicles of Conan which is a big voulme that collects everything Robert E. Howard wrote about the original swordswinging barbarian.
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What I'm not reading: four books I orderd from Amazon.com to include the third book in Ringo's Council Wars series and the first two in the Game of Thrones series (highly reccomend to me by many). Why am I not reading them-because some idiot shut down our mail three weeks early and didn't tell anybody!
I'll have to make due with our huge collection of Nora Robers novels.
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Cthulhu mythos and Star Wars novels, as well as the books I need to read for school.
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I have just reread "Morigu: The Desecration " & "Morigu: The Dead, by Mark C. Perry :). It is some of the best high fantasy ever written, everybody I've loaned the books to thinks so as well. The books are pretty much non-stop, in your face, b@lls to the wall action with a very cool story line and intersting characters. In fact the guy who seduced me into playing chronopia told me" Think of "Morigu" only with minis". It is just to bad the author died(?) before the 3rd book was written. Still it is so good I reread them every couple of years.
Right now I'm reading Robert Adams "Castaways in time" series as I just got the last 2 books at a used book store a while back.
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I'll be at Borders today! Like Chronopia? Great fiction?! You read it every few years?!?! Sold!!!!