Excelsior Entertainment Forums
Chronopia => Game Questions => Topic started by: joshuaslater on October 08, 2005, 08:15:43 AM
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Can this big baddie charge into base to base (or leap for that matter) so it's two heads can bite two different models? If it's anywhere the size of the other Totems, it should be so. I know (now) that a secondary attack cannot "walk" , as we've heard it coined, into another model even if it's in base to base, but the Wolfie Totem has two regular attacks for each action. Thoughts?
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Since it is two regular attacks, and not a Secondary, that should be perfectly legal.
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Correct, normal rules for base contact need apply.
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Correct, normal rules for base contact need apply.
Which of course means that you cannot charge into two models since you must charge the closest target by the shortest route. :)
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Hm. Now I'll have to re-think my strategy. :'(
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I too feel your pain :'(
oh to have my darkaxes charge two models at once :'(
-steve
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Had nothing special to do so I made a little picture of the geometry of it all. :)
Blue and Red are two enemies standing next to each other and White is standing equally close to both of them. A charge that would take him into contact with both of them would be straight ahead. However he has to charge by the shortest route. As can be seen from the diagram the red and blue lines are shorter than the black one. So it is impossible to legally charge both Red and Blue.
You have to choose which one to charge, or roll for it.
(http://goto.glocalnet.net/Andreas/img/chargegeometry.jpg)
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Nice diagram. :)
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Coil--I manage the records for a fair size law firm in Philadelphia. The last thing I wanted to see was something that looks like an exhibit for a courtroom! As long as I'm carryin' on like some rules lawyer, how would that diagram look with a large Totem base? And wait 'til EE busts out the new pentagon bases for the Totems! I'm gonna applaud you Coil; thanks for puttin' it down so I can see it. I'll bet Thom is smirking right now. Cheers.
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Someone else at the old forums made the same picture before, I'm only repeating it. :)
A large funky shaped base follows the same rules so in general the result will be the same. It is possible that some combination of weird base shape, distance between models and angles could create a situation that would actually let you contact two models at the same time without breaking the basic rule of charging by the shortest possible route.
I think the simplest solution is to say that a charge is always directed at one target but if both players agree then go ahead. If you want to be able to attack several models at once with the same charge you should invest in a Sisters of Tiamat.
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Just kidding Coil--I'm only being difficult. ::) But now that you mention it, I'll be watching out for Stygian Warrior's Sisters of Tiamat. Ooooh Noooo.....
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Yep, I AM smirking....good call.
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I have been using Wolf Totem lately and I think that Coil's diagram is not true for the Totem.
Wolf and Vulture totems are intended to attack multiple models during charge. That is why they have Leap.
Leap can be used to land anywhere and if a model lands in CC it counts as a charge (1st edition Rulebook - Page 140).
If I choose to land exactly where I touch two enemies I am able to charge both of them.
No weird base shape required :P
P.S The is also true for Devout Nameless.
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This has me thinking....
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joshuaslater: What do you think of? Any objections?
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It's contradictory. Any movement that brings you into CC with an enemy model is a charge. By that, you would have to use Leap that way.
If you allow the Wolf Clan Totem and other Leaping models to do this, then you would have to open the game up and allow models with Sweep to do their thing too. Or not.
We had a game where a Troll Deathseeker jumped off of some terrain into position where he was in contact with 3 Devout Forgotten, and killed them. That made for an exciting game, so I can see trying the Leap with the Totem this way.
If you play this rule, let me know how it goes. I don't want to step on anyone's enjoyment of a game that's not in print, and any house rules are appreciated.
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You may be right.
Leap does not override "by the shortest route" rule, only target priority.
But look at my diagram.
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6332/leapa.jpg)
If model A chooses to charge model C using Leap (according to the rules, he can can ignore model B) and does it by the shortest route it ends up touching two models.
If the model A kills model C with its primary attack he should be able to direct the additional ones towards model B.
I am not sure if the charging bonuses are still applied.
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Forgive me for chiming in where I have less than the requisite amount of expertise and/or knowledge of the game.
It is my opinion that you are reading, "by the shortest route," too literally. If the model is allowed to ignore priority, then the shortest route to the targeted model is redifened so as to allow the leaping model to engage the target without being in base contact with both models. Therefore, your diagram is not, technically, correct. The shortest route to the target would avoid model "B" altogether, and the line should be redrawn so that "A" is only in contact with "C".
Does that clarify it?
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Yes, it does.
It seems that Secondary Attack is fully efficient only for models such as Dwarven Keeper (goading spear) or Wailers (tail).
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How so?
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Models with secondary attack who kill with with their primary weapon do not fight efficiently.
Models such Keepers and Wailers who have "ranged melee weapon" (polearm or tail with 1 inch reach) can really kill 2 models in one action.
Their secondary attack is fully efficient.
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Secondary attack, like most Special Abilities, is situational. If the situation does not present itself, then the ability cannot be used. Efficiency, in my humble opinion, is less of a consideration compared to being able to tell a really cool story after the battle. ;D
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Something like this:
"I remember that day when Keeper Drim Ovduum accompanied with Vuture Totem and survivors of 3rd Legion were surrounded near an desert oasis.
Stygian Axemen and Spearmen killed the Legion quickly so the Keeper and the Totem had no other option but charge the enemy.
Drim was able to dispatch a whole squad of Lizardmen while the Totem was still fighting three of them.
Keeper took a second breath and decided to assist the Beast."
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Something like this:
"I remember that day when Keeper Drim Ovduum accompanied with Vuture Totem and survivors of 3rd Legion were surrounded near an desert oasis.
Stygian Axemen and Spearmen killed the Legion quickly so the Keeper and the Totem had no other option but charge the enemy.
Drim was able to dispatch a whole squad of Lizardmen while the Totem was still fighting three of them.
Keeper took a second breath and decided to assist the Beast."
Exactly.